jfraze
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Is it possible to explain how a photon can be a particle yet have no mass? I think I need a scientific clarification either of what a particle is or what mass is.
The discussion centers around the nature of photons, specifically addressing the question of how a photon can be considered a particle despite having no mass. Participants explore definitions of particles and mass, the implications of photons being massless, and the conditions under which photons may exhibit different properties in various media.
Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the nature of photons, their mass, and their behavior in different contexts. No consensus is reached on several points, particularly regarding the implications of photons interacting with materials and the definitions of mass and particles.
The discussion reveals limitations in the definitions and assumptions surrounding mass and particles, particularly in the context of photons in various media. The complexity of interactions and the role of different physical conditions are acknowledged but remain unresolved.
jfraze said:To define further... Can a photon be "at rest"?
jfraze said:To define further... Can a photon be "at rest"? If a photon could be trapped and held I think that means it would no longer have momentum. Without momentum would it be anything measurable?
Dickfore said:But, these interacting photons become quasiparticles (cavity modes, plasmon polaritons) of a different kind and acquire (rest) mass.
Dickfore said:Furthermore, in condensed matter, lorerentz invariance looses its meaning
And #2 as well. To see why (waveguide) modes acquire rest mass, consider the wave equation, and assume that the transversal cordinate dependence separates from the longitudinal coordinate dependence:PeterDonis said:If you're talking about my #1, yes, I didn't mean to imply that all photons in cavities or other such setups still have zero rest mass. But I can imagine an idealized container where they would.
I'm not sure I would say it "loses its meaning", but I agree things get a lot more complicated.
Dickfore said:It means that the presence of a medium introduces a preferred reference frame (that where the medium is at rest). We no longer require Lorentz invariant expressions as dispersion relations.
Dickfore said:To see why (waveguide) modes acquire rest mass
...
As for the propagation of em waves in a dielectric
PeterDonis said:At this level of modeling, though, we aren't really talking about "photons", are we? (Unless you use "photon" to mean "geometric optics approximation", I guess.) At the quantum level, are these (or the Hamiltonians corresponding to them) the equations that get quantized to determine the spectrum of photon modes?
Dickfore said:I solved the wave equation with a prizmoidal waveguide, and the boundary conditions for the "transversal part" gave rise to discrete eigenvalues [itex]\lambda_n[/itex].
PeterDonis said:So the answer is yes, these *are* the equations that get quantized to determine the spectrum of photon modes. Got it, thanks!