Can a Tube Launch System Harness Atmospheric Energy to Reach Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of a tube launch system that utilizes atmospheric energy to propel a ship into space. Participants explore theoretical implications, practical challenges, and the physics involved in such a concept.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest building a tube to space that uses atmospheric pressure to push a ship upward.
  • Others argue that the low density of air compared to water makes it impractical to lift a payload effectively using this method.
  • A participant mentions that a piston system could theoretically generate enough force to lift a ship, but the required size and conditions make it unfeasible.
  • Concerns are raised about the energy needed to pump air out of the tube and the potential heat loss associated with this process.
  • Some participants propose that if a tube could be constructed to withstand the conditions, it might be simpler to use mechanical means to lift the payload instead of relying on atmospheric pressure.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of having a vacuum at the top of the tube and how that interacts with the atmosphere below.
  • Several participants challenge each other's understanding of what constitutes a vacuum tube and the mechanics involved in maintaining air pressure.
  • One participant humorously suggests that if the tube concept were feasible, it would be as ambitious as building a Dyson sphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; instead, multiple competing views remain regarding the practicality and physics of the proposed tube launch system.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions about material strength, the efficiency of air pumping, and the dynamics of launching from a vertical tube. The discussion also highlights the complexity of achieving the necessary conditions for such a system to function effectively.

  • #31
Al_ said:
, accelerating the projectile to high speed.
High speed? What makes you say that? The force exerted by atmospheric pressure on the bottom of the projectile may be less than the weight of the projectile. In which case the velocity will be zero. All this to obtain a pressure on the bottom of one atmosphere? Vacuum does not have some magic power. It does not create large forces on objects. At the most it can allow the atmospheric pressure to act unbalanced.
 
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  • #32
Well, wait a minute... So, what if we built a giant Funnel? This funnel is transparent. We make the base about a mile wide and coat the ground beneath it with Fanta Black. That is going to generate a great deal of heat when the sun hits it. The hot air will rise, getting trapped in the funnel. This will create a constant upward thrust. Depending on how high we could get the funnel, a great deal of air will be rushing up it. If your spacecraft is carried up by a balloon it'll be forced out the top with a considerable amount of force. I bet you could get quite high up into the upper atmosphere with this set up by late afternoon, especially if you set it up in an area with extreme temperature swings and no clouds. Once the balloon passes the end of the tube, your craft cuts loose, activates thrusters, and takes the rest of the way into low orbit.
 
  • #33
@Captnq just do a few sums about the energy required to lift an object to a great height. The thermal Power from the Sun, warming a piece of ground is limited to about 1kW per metre square. You are actually proposing what, in general terms, is called a Heat Engine. They are not a very efficient way of using heat, when the temperature difference is small so you would get a small fraction of that thermal energy that arrives at the ground.
What is being proposed is an Engineering Project and, in Engineering, the numbers really do count, I'm afraid. Solar energy is certainly handy but it needs to be 'concentrated' into a fuel or some other form before it's able to provide any serious amount of intense mechanical work. Take a look at the 'special cases' of solar driven aeroplanes and boats to get an idea of its limitations.
 
  • #34
The basic principle of the device to which you refer, captnq, is called a "solar chimney" if you want to look it up.
 
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  • #35
Ibix said:
The basic principle is called a "solar chimney"
It's the sort of effect that drives the weather; massive amounts of energy involved but not particularly usefully directed when the energy turns up in a small space. (Hurricanes and other bad weather examples). Wind turbines and sailing ships use it but don't have much effect on (even) the local weather.
 
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