Can an envelope curve cut its member curve twice?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Happiness
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Curve Cut Member
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether an envelope curve, which is defined for a family of curves, can intersect a member curve of that family at more than one point. Participants explore theoretical implications and definitions related to envelopes in mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that an envelope curve can intersect a member curve multiple times if the member curve has a specific shape, such as a protrusion.
  • Another participant suggests that modifying the member curve would result in a different envelope curve that could also be tangent to the modified member curve.
  • A third participant provides an example of an envelope defined by the function ##f(x) = 1## for the family of curves ##g_k(x) = sin(x+k)##, noting that this envelope is tangent to each family member at infinitely many points.
  • There is a recurring assertion that an envelope should not allow a family member to extend beyond it, implying that intersections should only occur at tangential points.
  • Participants discuss the definition of an envelope, indicating that while tangency is required, the notion of "kissing" rather than "penetrating" is more aligned with the English meaning of the term.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of envelope curves and their intersections with member curves. There is no consensus on whether multiple intersections are permissible, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific definitions and examples, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of envelope curves and the implications of their definitions.

Happiness
Messages
686
Reaction score
30
Can the envelope curve (of a family of curves) intersect a member curve of the family at more than one point?

It seems possible. Consider the following.

Screen Shot 2016-06-22 at 4.02.59 am.png

Each blue line is a member curve and the red line is the envelope curve. If we modify each blue line such that it has a protrusion like a "þ", then it can intersect the red line more than once and still has a point that is tangent to the red line.

But I have never seen such as example before. So is it not allowed?

Picture from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope_(mathematics)
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
You would get a different envelope, being tangent to the "þ". You can probably make multiple envelope curves then.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Happiness
Consider the envelope defined by ##f(x) = 1## for the family of curves ##g_k(x) = sin(x+k)##

That envelope is tangent to each family member at infinitely many points. My understanding of an "envelope" is that it is not permissible for a family member to extend beyond the envelope. You are only allowed to kiss, not penetrate.
 
jbriggs444 said:
My understanding of an "envelope" is that it is not permissible for a family member to extend beyond the envelope. You are only allowed to kiss, not penetrate.

This would go well with the English meaning of the word envelope.

But it is not required in the following definition: an envelope of a family of curves in a plane is a curve that is tangent to each member of the family at some point.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbriggs444

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K