Can Beauty be described in terms of mathematics?

[Ryan_m_b]

Apology accepted. To my mind this is one of those issues that is more in the realm of social sciences than it is biological even, let alone mathematics. It has obvious implications in medical science but beauty as a cultural phenomenon should be treated as such first rather than fallaciously reified.

 

[tade]

This may make me appear callous, but I did not view those subtexts as particularly hideous.

To me, I just accepted this simple fact of life: some people are more beautiful than others.
Most of it is beyond our control.Perhaps you attach greater emotional value to those subtexts.

It is often said that men care more about the looks of their partner compared to women. I think I'm quite impartial, I don't place large significance on beauty.

But everyone has different opinions. To each his own.

 

[tade]

To my mind this is one of those issues that is more in the realm of social sciences than it is biological even, let alone mathematics. It has obvious implications in medical science but beauty as a cultural phenomenon should be treated as such first rather than fallaciously reified.

Marquadt needed a definite method of treating his patients. He was inspired by da Vinci.
da Vinci tried to apply mathematical ratios to beauty, and that intrigues me.


In John Cleese's documentary, he mentions that babies are more inclined to beautiful faces. I'm not sure if it's true, but if it is then there may be a biological basis.

jobyts and edward brought up some biological examples too, but those aren't well verified.


Lastly, society does play a major role, just look at all the super skinny catwalk models these days.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

This may make me appear callous, but I did not view those subtexts as particularly hideous.

To me, I just accepted this simple fact of life: some people are more beautiful than others.
Most of it is beyond our control.Perhaps you attach greater emotional value to those subtexts.

You miss my point. Beauty is a complex and multifaceted phenomenon, there is no evidence to suggest it is an objective spectrum which proposals like this thread would imply. There are negative consequences for individuals and society at large if we start adopting "you're either look like this and are beautiful or you're not" standards. You display a large privilege here, you're coming across as this not being an issue for you so therefore it isn't an issue or the issue lies with those who do find fault with it.

It is often said that men care more about the looks of their partner compared to women. I think I'm quite impartial, I don't place large significance on beauty.

Rather than often said perhaps it would be best to look into these things to see if they even make sense. I.e. is the difference between men and women so discrete or is this another example of cultural bias?

But everyone has different opinions. To each his own.

If only this topic was as whimsical as to leave each to their own we wouldn't have a host of problems because of it's poor exploration.

Marquadt needed a definite method of treating his patients. He was inspired by da Vinci.
da Vinci tried to apply mathematical ratios to beauty, and that intrigues me.

Da Vinci is hardly a contemporary authority on this topic.

In John Cleese's documentary, he mentions that babies are more inclined to beautiful faces. I'm not sure if it's true, but if it is then there may be a biological basis.

As babies have poor vision I'm again dubious. Rather than relying on TV documentaries by celebrities it would be best to refer to actual studies. But just to give you an idea of possible shoddy methodology: how is beauty being defined in this sense when one says "babies are attracted to beautiful faces?"

Lastly, society does play a major role, just look at all the super skinny catwalk models these days.

Quite. For a negative follow on to this look at the problems of air brushing and body image.

 

[leroyjenkens]

My girlfriend can be described mathematically; \sqrt{-1}

 

[tade]

My girlfriend can be described mathematically; \sqrt{-1}

Haha, I know that feel bro. My girlfriend is \pi she's round.

 

[tade]

You display a large privilege here, you're coming across as this not being an issue for you so therefore it isn't an issue or the issue lies with those who do find fault with it.

But, isn't this the case for any issue?

On the issue of beauty, I accepted it as part of the human condition. Something that will always be a part of society.

That said, I'll try to address your concerns.

Beauty is a complex and multifaceted phenomenon, there is no evidence to suggest it is an objective spectrum which proposals like this thread would imply.

I tried the "tests" on myself and on some of my friends. Among us, beauty does seem like an objective spectrum.

Of course, we're only a small sample.

There are negative consequences for individuals and society at large if we start adopting "you're either look like this and are beautiful or you're not" standards.

The consequences are already here. Just look at the huge fashion and beauty industry.

Rather than often said perhaps it would be best to look into these things to see if they even make sense. I.e. is the difference between men and women so discrete or is this another example of cultural bias?

I don't know, I've never spoken to my friends about this.

If only this topic was as whimsical as to leave each to their own we wouldn't have a host of problems because of it's poor exploration.

Yes, the effects of this topic are wide reaching.

However it it very difficult to shake people from their established beliefs.

Da Vinci is hardly a contemporary authority on this topic.

I thought da Vinci had "timeless" authority.

As babies have poor vision I'm again dubious. Rather than relying on TV documentaries by celebrities it would be best to refer to actual studies. But just to give you an idea of possible shoddy methodology: how is beauty being defined in this sense when one says "babies are attracted to beautiful faces?"

I guess the more a baby is attracted to it, the more beautiful it is.
I agree, this area is hardly well researched.

Here's an article on baby vision:
http://www.allaboutvision.com/parents/infants.htm

Supposedly infants also form a strong bond with one parent.

Quite. For a negative follow on to this look at the problems of air brushing and body image.

I don't consider those super skinny models beautiful though.

 

[tade]

So, we know that this topic is not well researched and may be subjective.

The most concrete, solid evidence are the informal "tests" we can conduct.
(Not very concrete, but already the most concrete)

Would you like to try them out?

 

[Astronuc]

So, we know that this topic is not well researched and may be subjective.

The most concrete, solid evidence are the informal "tests" we can conduct.
(Not very concrete, but already the most concrete)

Would you like to try them out?

The topic is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

dlgoff posted this on a different topic: "Questions that cannot be answered through scientific investigation are those that relate to personal preference, . . . ." Ref: http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih6/inquiry/guide/lesson2.htm

It seems relevant here.

I think a smile (rather than a scowl) goes along way to make a face more attractive, and babies, once their eyes can focus, and people in general, seem respond positively to smiles from what I have observed.

 

[tade]

There's daggers in men's smiles.

Well, the only way to find out is to test it.

 

[mathsciguy]

Isn't the occurrence of the golden ratio to 'beautiful' things subject to confirmation bias? We might have an 'ugly' thing that still has golden ratio in it, but we might not be counting these instances.

 

[tade]

Isn't the occurrence of the golden ratio to 'beautiful' things subject to confirmation bias? We might have an 'ugly' thing that still has golden ratio in it, but we might not be counting these instances.

Probably so.

Find me a pic of an ugly object and I'll try to see how many golden ratios I can find.

 

[tade]

@leroyjenkens

the good thing is, an imaginary girlfriend can't cheat on you.

 

[micromass]

@leroyjenkens

the good thing is, an imaginary girlfriend can't cheat on you.

Depends on your imagination...

 

[tade]

Depends on your imagination...

I suppose some people do that, to prepare themselves in case of cheating, for real.

 

[tade]

I believe Marquadt's mask is very good. However, there's an interesting problem.
The eyebrows in the mask are a bit too low. They are slightly lower than the eyebrows present on most people.

 

[Evo]

Sorry tade, this is going nowhere, time to put it down.