Can Bell's Theorem Disprove This Density Matrix Representation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of Bell's theorem on the representation of a density matrix for a quantum system, specifically in the context of the singlet state in the EPRB experiment. Participants explore the nature of the density matrix, its representation as a statistical operator, and the relationship between quantum states and classical probabilities.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that if the probabilities in the density matrix representation are derived from the singlet state in EPRB, then according to Bell's theorem, it cannot represent a classical statistical mix of those states.
  • Another participant counters that Bell's theorem is not relevant, arguing that the density matrix represents a pure state and that obscuring this fact by choosing a different basis does not change its nature.
  • A third participant elaborates that any set of normalized kets can be used in the density matrix formulation, emphasizing that the statistical operator must be self-adjoint, positive semidefinite, and normalized, regardless of the orthogonality of the vectors.
  • This participant also introduces a gedanken experiment to illustrate how Alice's preparation of particles in various states leads to a statistical description by Bob, which aligns with the proposed statistical operator.
  • Bayes's theorem is mentioned as a way to derive the probabilities associated with measurements made by Bob on the particles sent by Alice, linking the preparation probabilities to the measurement outcomes.
  • A later reply acknowledges a need for more careful language regarding the use of "basis" in the context of normalized kets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of Bell's theorem to the density matrix representation. There is no consensus on whether the density matrix can be considered a classical statistical mix or if it retains its identity as a pure state under different representations.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the definitions of pure and mixed states, as well as the implications of Bell's theorem, remain unresolved. The discussion highlights the complexity of interpreting density matrices in quantum mechanics.

jk22
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With ##\rho=\sum_i p_i|\Psi_i\rangle\langle\Psi_i|##If the ##p_i=|\langle\Psi|\lambda_i\rangle|^2## are taken as joint probabilities given by quantum mechanics for the singlet state in EPRB then this cannot represent a statistical mix (classical) of those states because of Bell's theorem ?
 
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I don't see what Bell's theorem has to do with it. You know the density matrix is a pure state since it represents the singlet state. Choosing a basis which obscures this fact doesn't mean that it ceases to be a pure state.
 
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I also don't see what this has to do with Bell's theorem. You can use any set of normalized kets ##|\psi_i \rangle## (it doesn't need to be a basis nor need the vectors be orthogonal to each other). Now
$$\hat{\rho}=\sum_i p_i |\psi_i \rangle \langle \psi_i|$$
is a statistical operator, if it's self-adjoing (##\Rightarrow p_i \in \mathbb{R}##), positive semidefinite (##\Rightarrow p_i \geq 0##) and normalized, ##\mathrm{Tr} \hat{\rho}=1##. To see what this means for the ##p_i## just take an arbitrary orthonormal basis ##|u_n \rangle## to evaluate the trace:
$$\mathrm{Tr} \hat{\rho} = \sum_n \langle u_n |\hat{\rho} u_n \rangle = \sum_i p_i \sum_n \langle \psi_i|n \rangle \langle n|\psi_i \rangle = \sum_i p_i \langle \psi_i|\psi_i \rangle=\sum_i p_i \stackrel{!}{=}1.$$
The heuristic meaning of this is most simply seen by the following gedanken experiment. Assume that Alice can prepare a particle in the pure states defined by the ##|\psi_i \rangle##. Alice now sends Bob particles prepared in these states. For each particle Alice chooses randomly with probability ##p_i## to send Bob a particle prepared in state ##|\psi_i \rangle## at each time, and that's all Bob knows about this ensemble of particles sent to him. So he'll describe the statistics of this ensemble with the above given statistical operator. This you can also formally show by using the Shannon-Jaynes principle of maximum entropy.

More intuitively you can argue with Bayes's theorem. Say Bob makes a complete measurement on each of the particles Alice sends him. E.g., he measures a complete minimal set of compatible observables ##A_k## (##k \in \{1,\ldots,N \}##. Then the probability to get the measurement result ##(a_1,\ldots,a_N)## should be given by
$$P(a_1,\ldots,a_N)=\langle u_{a_1,\ldots,a_n}|\hat{\rho} u_{a_1,\ldots,a_n} \rangle, \qquad (*)$$
where ##|u_{a_1,\ldots,a_n} \rangle## are the uniquely (up to an irrelevant phase factor) defined simultaneous eigen states of the operators ##\hat{A}_k## with eigenvalues ##(a_1,\ldots,a_k)##.

To see this just consider what Alice does. She prepares particles in the states ##|u_i \rangle## with probability ##p_i##. Supposed a specific particle sent to bob is prepared in this state. Then the probability for measuring ##(a_1,\ldots,a_N)## for Bob's measurement is
$$P(a_1,\ldots,a_n|u_i)=|\langle u_{a_1,\ldots,a_N}|u_i \rangle|^2.$$
Now the probability that Alice sends a particle prepared in state ##u_i \rangle## is ##p_i##. So due to Bayes the probability to measure ##(a_1,\ldots,a_N)## for the ensemble of particles sent by Alice is
$$P(a_1,\ldots,a_n)=\sum_i p_i P(a_1,\ldots,a_n|u_i),$$
but this is indeed given by (*).
 
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vanhees71 said:
You can use any set of normalized kets (it doesn't need to be a basis nor need the vectors be orthogonal to each other)
Yes, I should have been a little more careful with language and not used "basis."
 

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