Can Conservation of Energy Alone Solve Momentum Problems?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of conservation laws in a physics problem involving momentum and energy, particularly in the context of a bullet impacting a pendulum system. Participants are exploring whether conservation of energy alone can adequately address the momentum aspects of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use conservation of mechanical energy to derive a relationship for the bullet's velocity after impact, questioning the validity of their assumptions. Other participants raise questions about energy loss and its implications, suggesting that energy may be transformed into other forms during the interaction.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing insights into energy loss mechanisms and others drawing analogies to similar physical scenarios. There is an exploration of different interpretations regarding energy conservation and momentum transfer, but no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants are discussing the assumptions made in the original poster's approach, particularly regarding energy transformations and the implications of using conservation laws in this context. The nature of the problem suggests a complex interplay between kinetic and potential energy, as well as momentum conservation principles.

aa_o
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations


Conservation of momentum:
m1*v1 + m2*v2 = k
Conservation of mech. energy
1/2 * m * v^2 + m * g * h = k

The Attempt at a Solution


Why can't i just use conservation of energy to solve this one?
I know that the bullet contains all the kinetic energy before hitting:
K.E = 1/2 * m_b * v_b^2
After hitting we can observe the amplitude of the swing (where kinetic energy is 0 and write):
P.E = (m_b + m_p) * g * h
Where h is the height above the initial position, given by:
h = L * (1 - cos(x))
Solving for v_b we get:
v_b = sqrt[2*(M + m) / m * g * L * (1-cos(x))]

The 'well known' solution to this problem solved with conservation of both energy and yields this solution:
v_b = 2*(M + m) / m * sqrt[g * L * (1-cos(x))]

Which of my assumptions are wrong?
 

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aa_o said:
Conservation of mech. energy
Is the answer to your question -- as you probably know.
You can calculate the loss of energy from the correct solution and now my question is: where did it go ?
 
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BvU said:
Is the answer to your question -- as you probably know.
You can calculate the loss of energy from the correct solution and now my question is: where did it go ?
It went to making a hole in the pendulum and generating heat in the form of friction?
 
You got it ! deformation of the bullet, and so on.

Compare coins sliding on a table: shoot with one coin at another of the same size. The one moving stops altogether and the other one shoots off at the same speed. Energy and momentum conserved.
With a drop of glue (or two disc magnets) momentum conservation forces the double mass at half the original speed, so ##{1\over 2} mv^2## halves.

There's a lot of discussion on this under Newton's cradle (with or without scholar). Also check out Gauss gun
 
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