Can engineering be for NON-tomboyish girls?

[Gesong789]

I want to go into Mechanical Engineering for my undergrad, because out of all my classes, I like math and physics the best. Also, my mom is an engineer. However, she told me that there are a lot of areas where girls don't have the advantage in mechanical engineering because companies don't want to hire girls who are less likely to want to operate on machines.

Are there many jobs in Mechanical Engineering that requires no field-work? or just sitting-behind the desk all day long?

Are there other areas of engineering that are better suited for NON-tomboyish girls?

My other option would be to become a Certified Public Accountant.

Please give me some suggestions, thank you! ^^

 

[berkeman]

I want to go into Mechanical Engineering for my undergrad, because out of all my classes, I like math and physics the best. Also, my mom is an engineer. However, she told me that there are a lot of areas where girls don't have the advantage in mechanical engineering because companies don't want to hire girls who are less likely to want to operate on machines.

Are there many jobs in Mechanical Engineering that requires no field-work? or just sitting-behind the desk all day long?

Are there other areas of engineering that are better suited for NON-tomboyish girls?

My other option would be to become a Certified Public Accountant.

Please give me some suggestions, thank you! ^^

Do you not enjoy building things and using machines to make things?

 

[Gesong789]

Do you not enjoy building things and using machines to make things?

I do enjoy it, and am willing to learn.

but I am worried that some companies will be biased toward girls when hiring :S I heard that if there are two applicants with equal skills and background, the company will likely hire the guy for mechanical engineering jobs

 

[berkeman]

I do enjoy it, and am willing to learn.

but I am worried that some companies will be biased toward girls when hiring :S I heard that if there are two applicants with equal skills and background, the company will likely hire the guy for mechanical engineering jobs

Well I know several female MEs who are quite good. What country are you in? I don't think what you are saying applies in the US.

 

[ModusPwnd]

I think its the opposite. Your minority status will help you more than hurt (with respect to STEM fields in the US).

 

[sandy.bridge]

Hello Gesong789,
You don't have to be a tom-boy, or a male; in fact, you can be a female. Although the concentration of females in engineering (at my university) is less than males, those who stand out and excel do so independent of what is between their legs. Although there may exist bias individuals in the world, it is not strictly limited to engineering. If you are serious about pursuing the degree, then do so. There are numerous successful woman engineers in all of the disciplines.

 

[ParticleGrl]

I can't speak for mechanical engineering, but I'm very familiar with another traditionally male-dominated field (physics/particle physics) and I can say that sexism is indeed alive-and-well in the field.

I recommend seeing if there is an active Society of Women Engineers at your university (or the university you are interested in). Contact them, and they can put you in touch with women working in your field of interest, and you can get answers from people who have lived the career, rather than random people on a message board, who may or may not know what they are talking about.

 

[DaveC426913]

Even if sexism is an issue (+ or -) so what? No matter what you do in life you will encounter challenges. If it's not sexism it'll be job security, or heath or wages. Why does knowing the name of the challenge mean you should avoid it, in favor of some challenge you don't know?

The best and only thing you can do is do what you love. That is your best strategy for succeeding in the face of any adversity you're going to encounter.

tomboyish / non-tomboyish. Nonsense. Do you like it? Can you be good at it? Yes? End of worrying.

 

[berkeman]

Even if sexism is an issue (+ or -) so what? No matter what you do in life you will encounter challenges. If it's not sexism it'll be job security, or heath or wages. Why does knowing the name of the challenge mean you should avoid it, in favor of some challenge you don't know?

The best and only thing you can do is do what you love. That is your best strategy for succeeding in the face of any adversity you're going to encounter.

tomboyish / non-tomboyish. Nonsense. Do you like it? Can you be good at it? Yes? End of worrying.

+1.0 Nice post Dave.

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

I wish I could say I know lots of female engineers. They represent only about 10% of all engineers I know. There aren't many "tomboys" among them.

I wish I knew what discourages women from engineering, but I do not. Nevertheless, you can be whoever you want to be as an engineer. This is a career based upon what is in your head, not what biological equipment you may have.

 

[DaveC426913]

There aren't many "tomboys" among them.

A tomboy is a girl who exhibits few of the traditionally "girlish" traits (eg. heels, makeup, an affinity for pink), preferring instead to maintain an image more boyish. So, if you say there are 10% women in your circles but there aren't any tomboys along them, the implication is that the 10% of women in your field are quite feminine - they do (for example) wear heels, skirts and perfume.

Is that what you meant to say?

 

[djent]

it is crazy easy for girls to land jobs/internships in engineering
So yea go ahead

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

I guess I could have written that better, but yes, you understand what I was getting at.

Obviously engineers will need to dress appropriately for the job site. Men who wear suits and ties won't be terribly useful to anyone. Likewise, women wearing skirts and heels aren't going to be any better off.

However, the office is still the office. Those who dress well often move on to management and bigger things. That's the honest truth.

 

[twofish-quant]

It depends on what you mean by "non-tomboyish." I know a lot of women in software engineering and they are able to project power and get both personal and professional respect while being "feminine." I know lots of people that end up being "momma grizzlies" or "alpha females".

Also one thing that I have found about women in science and engineering is that those that survive tend to form an "old girls network."

 

[marcusl]

About 10% of the electrical engineers in the division I work for are women. I work closely with four of them, who do good work and are respected. The Department manager is a woman with an EE degree from MIT, and she directs over 60 people. Her boss is also a woman engineer (mechanical), who has some 120 people under her. Most wear pants in lieu of skirts, but I don't think of them as tomboys. They are like a cross-section of women anywhere--they are girlfriends, moms, some are fresh out of college while others are nearing retirement, some are fashionable others not so much. They are all smarter than average. I say do what you love. Our company has a mentorship program for women and an active Women in Engineering chapter. If you don't find the support you want at your employer, start a group!

 

[Astronuc]

Science and engineering (applied physics) is gender-independent, so forget about the 'tomboy' issue.

Find a discipline that one enjoys, become proficient, and be diligent.

The cultural/societal aspect is a different matter. In that respect, one only need to concerned about those who value one as one is - and ignore the rest.

 

[Mad_Miller20]

I can't speak for mechanical engineering, but I'm very familiar with another traditionally male-dominated field (physics/particle physics) and I can say that sexism is indeed alive-and-well in the field.

I recommend seeing if there is an active Society of Women Engineers at your university (or the university you are interested in). Contact them, and they can put you in touch with women working in your field of interest, and you can get answers from people who have lived the career, rather than random people on a message board, who may or may not know what they are talking about.

Great answer from ParticleGrl. Yes, ME is male dominated and some sexism exists in most professions. However, if you have good grades, experience, etc. you should have no problem in a male dominated field. I would pursue ME if you think you are going to enjoy and excel at it. Don't let your gender discourage you - it's 2012. Your gender should not be the basis on why you don't pursue what you want to do.

 

[Angry Citizen]

I want to go into Mechanical Engineering for my undergrad, because out of all my classes, I like math and physics the best. Also, my mom is an engineer. However, she told me that there are a lot of areas where girls don't have the advantage in mechanical engineering because companies don't want to hire girls who are less likely to want to operate on machines.

Are there many jobs in Mechanical Engineering that requires no field-work? or just sitting-behind the desk all day long?

Are there other areas of engineering that are better suited for NON-tomboyish girls?

My other option would be to become a Certified Public Accountant.

Please give me some suggestions, thank you! ^^

Nuts on that! Go for it, girl! Even if they did discriminate, SOMEONE'S got to show 'em who's boss.

And for what it's worth, I know several aerospace engineering majors who are very feminine females. You don't have to be a tomboy to be an engineer. Not at all.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I can't speak for mechanical engineering, but I'm very familiar with another traditionally male-dominated field (physics/particle physics) and I can say that sexism is indeed alive-and-well in the field.

I recommend seeing if there is an active Society of Women Engineers at your university (or the university you are interested in). Contact them, and they can put you in touch with women working in your field of interest, and you can get answers from people who have lived the career, rather than random people on a message board, who may or may not know what they are talking about.

Although I have to wonder for someone with the username "ParticleGirl"; how much is SOCIETY defining you by your gender and how much is YOU defining yourself by your gender. Not to mention proudly joining gender-exclusive societies. That's what I always wonder with these Women In Science and Engineering groups (and equivalently for black or latin physicists, I can't remember what they're called). Obviously social dynamics are complicated but if you make every effort to DEFINE yourself as a distinct group then people are going to SEE YOU as a distinct group, and let's face it , regardless of gender or race people prefer people in their own group and have less preference for those in others (whether it's gender, race or randomly handing out blue shirt and red shirts).

 

[ParticleGrl]

lthough I have to wonder for someone with the username "ParticleGirl"; how much is SOCIETY defining you by your gender and how much is YOU defining yourself by your gender.

I debated with myself for a long time whether or not I should respond to this. This isn't a thread for a debate on gender/society/identity. In the end, I decided to stick to an area of my experience that might benefit the original poster.

In undergrad, I was literally the only woman in my physics classes. I literally never had a female professor (there were two tenured women professor in the department, but I never ended up with one teaching a class I was taking). Now, I hope you can agree, this can feel a bit isolating. Imagine yourself in classes with only women for your entire undergrad experience. Regardless of how well you are doing in the classes, its easy to let doubt creep in.

Society of women engineers was a godsend for me because it connected me with other people who had made it in various science/engineering careers. Thats why I recommend the original poster contact a chapter- its one thing for a bunch of random people on a message board (almost all of whom have never been a woman trying to make it in a traditionally male field) to offer encouragement. Its a much different thing for a real-life woman who has been successful in the career to offer encouragement.

Not to mention proudly joining gender-exclusive societies.

Society of women engineers is not gender exclusive, membership is open to all. The chapter at my undergrad institution was 40% men.

 

[DaveC426913]

I debated with myself for a long time whether or not I should respond to this. This isn't a thread for a debate on gender/society/identity. In the end, I decided to stick to an area of my experience that might benefit the original poster.

Well spoken. Maverick in essence pulled an ad hominem, based on username alone. Not only should an argument not be judged on the person speaking it, but doubly so if the only factored bit information is their username.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Well spoken. Maverick in essence pulled an ad hominem, based on username alone. Not only should an argument not be judged on the person speaking it, but doubly so if the only factored bit information is their username.

Ok, without being drawn into a gender politics debate how about this for advice: If you are a person who does not enjoy working, hands on, with mechanical devices then perhaps, regardless of gender, mechanical engineering is not for you; there are no theoretical mechanical engineers (at least starting out). Also, if you set it in your head that there's a massive mountain to climb because of personal attributes then no matter what, you're going to SEE your journey as a climb uphill, which may not be enjoyable.

 

[Astronuc]

Ok, without being drawn into a gender politics debate how about this for advice: If you are a person who does not enjoy working, hands on, with mechanical devices then perhaps, regardless of gender, mechanical engineering is not for you; there are no theoretical mechanical engineers (at least starting out). Also, if you set it in your head that there's a massive mountain to climb because of personal attributes then no matter what, you're going to SEE your journey as a climb uphill, which may not be enjoyable.

I work with folks who could be classified as theoretical CivE or MechE. They are among the generation that developed the mathematical theory and computational systems that are the bases of modern finite-element methods! Perhaps these days, such engineers are hard to find, but back in the 50's and 60's, there was a lot of theory taught in engineering. In my bachelors and graduate programs, I was also exposed to a lot of theory in my engineering classes, as well as math and physics classes I took.

I like developing theory and methods, then applying theory, as much as I like getting my hands on mechanical systems.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I work with folks who could be classified as theoretical CivE or MechE. They are among the generation that developed the mathematical theory and computational systems that are the bases of modern finite-element methods! Perhaps these days, such engineers are hard to find, but back in the 50's and 60's, there was a lot of theory taught in engineering. In my bachelors and graduate programs, I was also exposed to a lot of theory in my engineering classes, as well as math and physics classes I took.

I like developing theory and methods, then applying theory, as much as I like getting my hands on mechanical systems.

The key paranthetical statement being "at least starting out". Were these people handed pencils straight out of undergrad and told "please new engineer develop new theory!". I think not. To work in ME, at some point, you're literally going to have to get your hands dirty. And if you think working with machines is for men and tomboys then it's really not a great career choice for a "woman" (apparently being the subset of society who can't be bothered to work with machines in their machine engineering).

 

[ParticleGrl]

And if you think working with machines is for men and tomboys then it's really not a great career choice for a "woman" (apparently being the subset of society who can't be bothered to work with machines in their machine engineering).

I don't think anyone said this except you?

If you look at the third post in this thread, the original poster said:

I do enjoy [working with machines and building things], and am willing to learn.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

because companies don't want to hire girls who are less likely to want to operate on machines.

Are there many jobs in Mechanical Engineering that requires no field-work? or just sitting-behind the desk all day long?

Am I misinterpreting this? I read this as a person who claims her femaleness makes her less interested in working WITH machines in her pursuit of the ENGINEERING of machines and is curious if companies will cut her a break on the whole "mechanical" aspect of mechanical engineering. I would say it has nothing to do with gender politics if a company has little interest in hiring a mechanical engineer who isn't interested in mechanical things, no secret cabal of oppressive white-men required.

 

[Astronuc]

The key paranthetical statement being "at least starting out". Were these people handed pencils straight out of undergrad and told "please new engineer develop new theory!". I think not. To work in ME, at some point, you're literally going to have to get your hands dirty. And if you think working with machines is for men and tomboys then it's really not a great career choice for a "woman" (apparently being the subset of society who can't be bothered to work with machines in their machine engineering).

As undergraduates, these people received plenty of theory from Egor Popov. They went on to obtain MS and PhDs in Civ Eng or Mech Eng, and professionally applied FE methods to analysis.

Popov’s research had strong theoretical and experimental underpinnings, yet was applied broadly by structural engineers. Much of more recent work focused on the seismic response of reinforced concrete and steel structures.

http://berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2001/04/25_obit.html

The folks I work with developed finite element methods and constitutive models for concrete and metals, and applied them to a broad range of materials and systems.

Working on machines would be a subset of mechanical engineering. The OP seems to have some misunderstanding of what mechanical engineering is about, and I think she is concerned about being at a disadvantage being female, which could very well be true in some cases. I've encountered some professors and managers who were somewhat hostile to women, and in some cases, racial minorities in engineering.

I think one is misinterpreting and/or misrepresenting what others write.

 

[Fusiontron]

As a guy in mechanical engineering/physics I can tell you there's not much difference between girls in STEM majors and those in say the humanities. It's just that maybe 25% (at best) of most of my major classes is female. Though the thing is because girls tend to be more self-selective when applying for engineering they tend to do better on the tests. Hope that helps.

 

[timsea81]

Are you kidding?? Don't let an assumption of sexism get in the way of what you want to do! Engineering is definitely a male-dominated field, but there are plenty of women involved as well, and most of them are not "tom-boyish". You're not going to be doing any grunt-work. Your job will likely be to do calculations, write reports, and talk to people. Women can do that every bit as good as men.

I was talking to some of the female engineers that I work with about this once and one of them said that she felt sometimes it worked to her advantage. She said a lot of times people expect a guy to walk into the room and when they realize that the engineer is a woman they think "okay she must really know what she's doing if she's made it this far in a male-dominated industry." It can also, as someone else mentioned, work to your advantage in hiring because companies don't want to appear to be sexist, even when 95% of the resumes they receive are from men.