Can Humans Really Have Superhuman Strength?

[nismaratwork]

I was just wondering if anyone has heard of of a man/women being possessed by ghosts and at some times the person that is possessed goes out of control and lifts HEAVY objects and smashes them around like they are weightless which unfortunately includes other human beings as well i am sure some of you must have heard of such incident.

Well, often tales of possession have their roots in Psychosis... usually Schizophrenia or an extreme manic/hypo-manic episode. Such a person is going to sound very odd, and they can become very VERY afraid. We all know how hard a person will fight at full tilt, with adrenaline going. Fear, terror, is at the heart of psychosis, and so you're dealing with the classic fight or flight reaction... Hysterical Strength.

 

[FizixFreak]

Well, often tales of possession have their roots in Psychosis... usually Schizophrenia or an extreme manic/hypo-manic episode. Such a person is going to sound very odd, and they can become very VERY afraid. We all know how hard a person will fight at full tilt, with adrenaline going. Fear, terror, is at the heart of psychosis, and so you're dealing with the classic fight or flight reaction... Hysterical Strength.

These kind of incidents can easily be explained scientifically but in my country unfortunately even in the modern age people with seek the help of a "spiritual healer" rather than a psychiatrist i think that doesn't happen at your country.

 

[nismaratwork]

These kind of incidents can easily be explained scientifically but in my country unfortunately even in the modern age people with seek the help of a "spiritual healer" rather than a psychiatrist i think that doesn't happen at your country.

Unfortunately your country is by no means alone in this. Catholicism especially has a rich history of "exorcisms"... and they're still done and recognized. They are less common, but from NYC to Tokyo... people believe in evil spirits possessing or influencing people

In a way, I understand... it can be confusing to watch someone lose their mind... and in the case of Schizophrenia, it crosses all races, all cultures. People are sane, and usually in their teens and early 20's, they become delusional, paranoid, psychotic... in other words, you watch someone you've known turn into someone who you don't know at all.

If you have no access to mental health services, and/or no knowlege... it must be terrifying.

 

[FizixFreak]

Unfortunately your country is by no means alone in this. Catholicism especially has a rich history of "exorcisms"... and they're still done and recognized. They are less common, but from NYC to Tokyo... people believe in evil spirits possessing or influencing people

In a way, I understand... it can be confusing to watch someone lose their mind... and in the case of Schizophrenia, it crosses all races, all cultures. People are sane, and usually in their teens and early 20's, they become delusional, paranoid, psychotic... in other words, you watch someone you've known turn into someone who you don't know at all.

If you have no access to mental health services, and/or no knowlege... it must be terrifying.

Yes the loved ones of such victims must go through very bad time and become desperate and of course the psychiatrist cost a lot of fee so for the ones who are not so educated or wealthy it can be a horrible experience and they have less choices i think its just a part of human nature no matter how educated you get at some times you will believe in such paranormal things and some of thsese things are actually real there are things that cannot be explained by science i don't know what is your view of this but let's continue this discussion at some other time.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yes the loved ones of such victims must go through very bad time and become desperate and of course the psychiatrist cost a lot of fee so for the ones who are not so educated or wealthy it can be a horrible experience and they have less choices i think its just a part of human nature no matter how educated you get at some times you will believe in such paranormal things and some of thsese things are actually real there are things that cannot be explained by science i don't know what is your view of this but let's continue this discussion at some other time.

Agreed, on both points. Still, it's people like you who can help explain to those despeate friends and family that while it's not good, it's not posession. It's people who are educated within a given culture who are best able to positively effect it, in my view.

 

[FizixFreak]

Agreed, on both points. Still, it's people like you who can help explain to those despeate friends and family that while it's not good, it's not posession. It's people who are educated within a given culture who are best able to positively effect it, in my view.

Yeah agree with you i think you are considering me a very educated or bright person well i am not..., i am just a regular guy(not very good at studies) that just happens to have access to cheap internet.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yeah agree with you i think you are considering me a very educated or bright person well i am not..., i am just a regular guy(not very good at studies) that just happens to have access to cheap internet.

Who speaks Urdu, and English, and who knows about psychology. We're never going to agree on everything, but I can still respect your intelligence... your education is an ongoing process as are all of our's.

Superhuman strength is a fine thing, but so is the fortitutde to overcome prejudice, to see past old explanations to the science beneath.

Here's an example you might enjoy; historically some people with siezure disorders can do real damage, slight of build or not. Likewise, Tetanus is a good example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus

and some manifestations of epilepsy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epileptic_seizure

(both of these are available in Urdu I believe, on wikipedia)

 

[FizixFreak]

Who speaks Urdu, and English, and who knows about psychology. We're never going to agree on everything, but I can still respect your intelligence... your education is an ongoing process as are all of our's.

That was very kind of you..., and by the way i think being able to speak English is not a big deal it a essential part of our studies and you have no ides how bad i am at spelling.

Any ways those were so nice links interesting information one thing came to my mind is that i remember the stories our elders use to tell us that in the older times humans were much bigger and had much more lifespan than us so being so big and healthy must have been super strong i am not bringing religion in here but one of the prophets named NOOH(peace be upon him) you probably know him as NOAH died at the age if 950 which i know is a fact just wanted to get your thoughts on this.

 

[nismaratwork]

That was very kind of you..., and by the way i think being able to speak English is not a big deal it a essential part of our studies and you have no ides how bad i am at spelling.

Any ways those were so nice links interesting information one thing came to my mind is that i remember the stories our elders use to tell us that in the older times humans were much bigger and had much more lifespan than us so being so big and healthy must have been super strong i am not bringing religion in here but one of the prophets named NOOH(peace be upon him) you probably know him as NOAH died at the age if 950 which i know is a fact just wanted to get your thoughts on this.

I tend to look at those stories as parables; a tale to explain a point to us that transcends time. I find it very hard to believe that anyone could live so long, but I'm a skeptic. I've discussed this before (not here), and I think that like "superhuman strength", it's something that "grows in the telling". In other words, let's say you have a man, NOAH, who lives to be 90 in a time when most die in their 30's if they're lucky... would be very impressive. Over time, you want to impress the people you're teaching, so 90, becomes 100, then 120, and so on.

I can't think of a medical or scientific explanation, but that's what I believe at least; parables. I think when people want to describe heroes of legend, they become bigger, taller, faster... over time we as humans tend to make our heroes bigger, not smaller. A woman who uses leverage and hysterical strength to lift a car a small amount and save her child becomes, "She lifted a car!"

What will be said in a hundred, or a thousand years about that?

 

[FizixFreak]

I tend to look at those stories as parables; a tale to explain a point to us that transcends time. I find it very hard to believe that anyone could live so long, but I'm a skeptic. I've discussed this before (not here), and I think that like "superhuman strength", it's something that "grows in the telling". In other words, let's say you have a man, NOAH, who lives to be 90 in a time when most die in their 30's if they're lucky... would be very impressive. Over time, you want to impress the people you're teaching, so 90, becomes 100, then 120, and so on.

I can't think of a medical or scientific explanation, but that's what I believe at least; parables. I think when people want to describe heroes of legend, they become bigger, taller, faster... over time we as humans tend to make our heroes bigger, not smaller. A woman who uses leverage and hysterical strength to lift a car a small amount and save her child becomes, "She lifted a car!"

What will be said in a hundred, or a thousand years about that?

I think mentionig NOAH(peace be upon him) was a stupid thing any ways you cannot deny that in older times life span could have been a lot more (but 950? like i said that was stupid on my behalf to mention it here) the reasons why i say this is becaust at that time diet of people was very pure no food colors, preservatives,chocolates,burgers and cold drinks no air pollution no carbon monoxide in the air and at that time ozone must have been really healthy Earth less hotter i mean there are a lot of factors you can hardly count them.

As far as people being much bigger i think its not true if they were scientists must have found some giant human skeletons and i think our elders just emphasize too much that things were better in holder times they always criticize the new world this is a very humorous topic in my country.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think mentionig NOAH(peace be upon him) was a stupid thing any ways you cannot deny that in older times life span could have been a lot more (but 950? like i said that was stupid on my behalf to mention it here) the reasons why i say this is becaust at that time diet of people was very pure no food colors, preservatives,chocolates,burgers and cold drinks no air pollution no carbon monoxide in the air and at that time ozone must have been really healthy Earth less hotter i mean there are a lot of factors you can hardly count them.

As far as people being much bigger i think its not true if they were scientists must have found some giant human skeletons and i think our elders just emphasize too much that things were better in holder times they always criticize the new world this is a very humorous topic in my country.

Heh... I think that's a universal thing, we all miss the "halcyon" days of our youth.
Nepenthe in action?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepenthe

Nepenthe (Greek: Νηπενθές; pronounced [nə-ˈpen(t)-thē]) is a medicine for sorrow, literally an anti-depressant – a "drug of forgetfulness" mentioned in ancient Greek literature and Greek mythology, depicted as originating in Egypt.

 

[FizixFreak]

Heh... I think that's a universal thing, we all miss the "halcyon" days of our youth.
Nepenthe in action?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepenthe

I don't get it are you accusing me of using drugs?

Oh no not drugs again i think this thread will also be locked

 

[nismaratwork]

I don't get it are you accusing me of using drugs?

Oh no not drugs again i think this thread will also be locked

No no! It's a mythical thing, also jokingly said to form in the brains of people as they age.

I'm talking about the idea that as we age, we tend to remember the good times, and forget the bad... or at least de-emphasize them. You hear about X bounty, but not Y price that had to be paid for it.

I was using a couple of plays on words... Halcyon is a hypnotic drug, but it was so named for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halcyon

A halcyon (pronounced /ˈhælsiən/) is a mythical bird—often identified as a kingfisher—said to breed in a floating nest at sea during the winter solstice, during which time it charms the wind and waves into calm. The term originates from the Greek myth of Alcyone. In popular use, it can also mean to harken back to an earlier time, remembered as idyllic.

I was just playing with the Greek, sorry about that.

 

[FizixFreak]

No no! It's a mythical thing, also jokingly said to form in the brains of people as they age.

I'm talking about the idea that as we age, we tend to remember the good times, and forget the bad... or at least de-emphasize them. You hear about X bounty, but not Y price that had to be paid for it.

I was using a couple of plays on words... Halcyon is a hypnotic drug, but it was so named for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halcyon


I was just playing with the Greek, sorry about that.

Its all right i get it now i guess this topic is also taken in the same manner in your country well coming back to the topic check this out

 

[nismaratwork]

Whoa... that kid has amazing strength and balance!

 

[SkepticJ]

What about the skeleton? There's no way someone could pick up a weight great enough to snap their arm or leg bones.

People that actually train in tough martial arts, or hard body make their bones tougher through abuse that they put them though, and the body heals them back denser and stronger than they were before, but this only gets you so much. Bone is pretty pathetic compared to other natural materials (such as bamboo), to say nothing of the man-made materials that put Nature's materials to shame.

 

[JaredJames]

in the older times humans were much bigger

No they weren't. We've had this discussion before and the result was that so far there has been no evidence what so ever that humans were significantly bigger than today (if I remember correctly, some were shorter but at most a few inches taller).

had much more lifespan than us

Really? Based on what? We have evidence that shows our lifespan has only increased since the introduction of modern medicine - not that it's shrunk due to poor diet.

so being so big and healthy must have been super strong

Wild speculation there.

i am not bringing religion in here but one of the prophets named NOOH(peace be upon him) you probably know him as NOAH died at the age if 950 which i know is a fact just wanted to get your thoughts on this.

You can eat the best diet in the world, but no amount of modern medicine - outside of permanent life support systems taking over from your body - can make you live that long.

I have no interest in anyone's beliefs, but let's please leave them out of this discussion.

RE Bolded: Please take note on what a fact is before you make such claims - I assure you it is not fact and there is no supporting evidence to make it so.

As per nismar, exaggeration and story telling are what give us these stories.

 

[pafrya]

Yes, that's interesting, bigger superhumans in ancient time? Skeletons of giants? Something of that maybe findable on this other forum if browsing through
http://www.legendarytimes.com/forum/

About the strength of bones, think example of some advanced parkour guy who do 15 feet drop to solid ground (street). Then think of that move exactly reversed, as viewing a movie backwards. If the human musculars was able to accelerate as much as them take in retardation, then some people would do standing vertical doublefooted upjumps of the same hight as drops. Or in practical a little bit less because skin and fat being temporar smash compressed in a retardation did not have the muscles for opposite active direction. But still, if all the muscles that resisting in a drop could move the same reversed (retardation = acceleration), then the bones and joints will allow for standing upjumps with more space below the shoes than world record highjumpers have below the back in flop style.

If you want old stories I have some to add more to what I gave a year ago...
One story tells about two Norwegian vikings meet on a hill side. Then both jump down 20 meters and start wrestling. Another story tells of a boy when he was 12 year old become super berserker and alone defeat an enemy army. A more recent time story tells of a Danish girl who jumped a fence higher than her own length to rescue another kid from a railroad. This girl was later asked to start regular jump training but refused.

 

[JaredJames]

Yes, that's interesting, bigger superhumans in ancient time? Skeletons of giants? Something of that maybe findable on this other forum if browsing through

I've omitted the link, but that's a crackpot site about ancient aliens.

No, there is absolutely no evidence for any of this and we do not need another discussion on it.

About the strength of bones, think example of some advanced parkour guy who do 15 feet drop to solid ground (street). Then think of that move exactly reversed, as viewing a movie backwards. If the human musculars was able to accelerate as much as them take in retardation, then some people would do standing vertical doublefooted upjumps of the same hight as drops. Or in practical a little bit less because skin and fat being temporar smash compressed in a retardation did not have the muscles for opposite active direction. But still, if all the muscles that resisting in a drop could move the same reversed (retardation = acceleration), then the bones and joints will allow for standing upjumps with more space below the shoes than world record highjumpers have below the back in flop style.

I don't know what you're getting at here. Do you have a point?

If you want old stories I have some to add more to what I gave a year ago...
One story tells about two Norwegian vikings meet on a hill side. Then both jump down 20 meters and start wrestling.

~60ft? Nearly three times the height of the average house. Yep, it's just that, a story.

Another story tells of a boy when he was 12 year old become super berserker and alone defeat an enemy army.

Another lovely story.

A more recent time story tells of a Danish girl who jumped a fence higher than her own length to rescue another kid from a railroad. This girl was later asked to start regular jump training but refused.

She jumped a fence that was higher than her own height? So at most it was 7ft - hardly a death defying height for a start. So far as jumping it, I assume you mean like a hurdle? Well I'm very dubious about that. Sounds like another exaggerated story - unless you fancy backing it up?

 

[FizixFreak]

No they weren't. We've had this discussion before and the result was that so far there has been no evidence what so ever that humans were significantly bigger than today (if I remember correctly, some were shorter but at most a few inches taller).


Really? Based on what? We have evidence that shows our lifespan has only increased since the introduction of modern medicine - not that it's shrunk due to poor diet.


Wild speculation there.


You can eat the best diet in the world, but no amount of modern medicine - outside of permanent life support systems taking over from your body - can make you live that long.

I have no interest in anyone's beliefs, but let's please leave them out of this discussion.

RE Bolded: Please take note on what a fact is before you make such claims - I assure you it is not fact and there is no supporting evidence to make it so.

As per nismar, exaggeration and story telling are what give us these stories.

I think it would have been better if you had seen one of my older posts here it is read it you still may disagree with some things though

I think mentionig NOAH(peace be upon him) was a stupid thing any ways you cannot deny that in older times life span could have been a lot more (but 950? like i said that was stupid on my behalf to mention it here) the reasons why i say this is becaust at that time diet of people was very pure no food colors, preservatives,chocolates,burgers and cold drinks no air pollution no carbon monoxide in the air and at that time ozone must have been really healthy Earth less hotter i mean there are a lot of factors you can hardly count them.

As far as people being much bigger i think its not true if they were scientists must have found some giant human skeletons and i think our elders just emphasize too much that things were better in holder times they always criticize the new world this is a very humorous topic in my country.

 

[FizixFreak]

What about the skeleton? There's no way someone could pick up a weight great enough to snap their arm or leg bones.

People that actually train in tough martial arts, or hard body make their bones tougher through abuse that they put them though, and the body heals them back denser and stronger than they were before, but this only gets you so much. Bone is pretty pathetic compared to other natural materials (such as bamboo), to say nothing of the man-made materials that put Nature's materials to shame.

"Bones are pathetic" i don't see why anyone would say that..., or even compare it to any other material like that.

 

[nismaratwork]

"Bones are pathetic" i don't see why anyone would say that..., or even compare it to any other material like that.

I was going to say... bones are astounding! Their ability to heal and callous, their sheer strength, and role as part of a major organ system is amazing.

 

[FizixFreak]

I know this thread is about superHUMAN strength but doesn't anyone find it shocking how strong some animals are for their size check this out

 

[JaredJames]

I think it would have been better if you had seen one of my older posts here it is read it you still may disagree with some things though

I think mentionig NOAH(peace be upon him) was a stupid thing any ways you cannot deny that in older times life span could have been a lot more (but 950? like i said that was stupid on my behalf to mention it here) the reasons why i say this is becaust at that time diet of people was very pure no food colors, preservatives,chocolates,burgers and cold drinks no air pollution no carbon monoxide in the air and at that time ozone must have been really healthy Earth less hotter i mean there are a lot of factors you can hardly count them.

I read your later replies, but it doesn't change what I wrote.

I can certainly deny all of that.

1. We have evidence life span was shorter (significantly).
2. Those claims about the diet are complete non-sense.*
3. It is only with the introduction of modern medicine that we have increased life expectancy.
4. If you take random tribes that have had little to no contact with the outside world, their diet is fairly consistent and is free of all the things you mention - but they don't miraculously live longer than westerners.

* Where the claim is the diet is the sole responsibility - ignoring medicine, exercise, nutrition and other key factors that play a far bigger role.

Now, once again I have no interest in your personal beliefs, they are what you choose them to be. But please be very aware that if you are going to bring them up and make statements like this I will take the ridiculous claims and tear them to shreds. I'm sorry if people don't like me saying this but at the end of the day if the claims are permitted then it is only reasonable that we have adequate responses. There's only so far tolerance can go.

 

[nismaratwork]

I read your later replies, but it doesn't change what I wrote.

I can certainly deny all of that.

1. We have evidence life span was shorter (significantly).
2. Those claims about the diet are complete non-sense.*
3. It is only with the introduction of modern medicine that we have increased life expectancy.
4. If you take random tribes that have had little to no contact with the outside world, their diet is fairly consistent and is free of all the things you mention - but they don't miraculously live longer than westerners.

* Where the claim is the diet is the sole responsibility - ignoring medicine, exercise, nutrition and other key factors that play a far bigger role.

Now, once again I have no interest in your personal beliefs, they are what you choose them to be. But please be very aware that if you are going to bring them up and make statements like this I will take the ridiculous claims and tear them to shreds. I'm sorry if people don't like me saying this but at the end of the day if the claims are permitted then it is only reasonable that we have adequate responses. There's only so far tolerance can go.

This is S&D, you have no need to apologize, but I think Fizix has been clear (and if I'm wrong, I'm sorry) that those were his beliefs, as opposed to what he's learned from science.

In principle however, I agree completely, but I think the language barrier here, while not immense, is still considerable.

@FizixFreak: He's right about the religious angle; right, wrong, or belief, in S&D if you bring it up, it's fair game. That doesn't mean a lack of respect, it's just... the nature of S&D.

 

[JaredJames]

This is S&D, you have no need to apologize, but I think Fizix has been clear (and if I'm wrong, I'm sorry) that those were his beliefs, as opposed to what he's learned from science.

Oh he was perfectly clear they are his beliefs and as I said, that's a personal choice and I respect his right to those beliefs.

My problem stems from the use of exceptionally flawed scientific arguments to justify said beliefs and tell us we are wrong.

 

[FizixFreak]

I read your later replies, but it doesn't change what I wrote.

I can certainly deny all of that.

1. We have evidence life span was shorter (significantly).
2. Those claims about the diet are complete non-sense.*
3. It is only with the introduction of modern medicine that we have increased life expectancy.
4. If you take random tribes that have had little to no contact with the outside world, their diet is fairly consistent and is free of all the things you mention - but they don't miraculously live longer than westerners.

* Where the claim is the diet is the sole responsibility - ignoring medicine, exercise, nutrition and other key factors that play a far bigger role.

I admit that i only considered the factors that could have had a positive impact on life expectancy and neglected the others you are right about that i made some bad assumptions i can see your point there.

But please be very aware that if you are going to bring them up and make statements like this I will take the ridiculous claims and tear them to shreds.

Now i admit that it was my fault to bring religion into this and i even admitted that in my post so this ends right here so this argument can now be called purely scientific so why did you have to refer to my mistake again? i don't see why your response has been so aggressive if it is not appropriate to discuss religion here then it would also not be right to label someones believes as "ridiculous claims" i really didn't liked your tone there we can have an argument about those "ridiculous claims" but you and i both know that this is not the right place to do it.

By the way nismar thanks for the explanation on my behalf Chuck Norris is now happy with you

 

[JaredJames]

Now i admit that it was my fault to bring religion into this and i even admitted that in my post so this ends right here so this argument can now be called purely scientific so why did you have to refer to my mistake again?

Your response contained said argument again, hence me replying to it. My response is purely scientific, outlining the problems in your claims.

i don't see why your response has been so aggressive if it is not appropriate to discuss religion here then it would also not be right to label someones believes as "ridiculous claims" i really didn't liked your tone there we can have an argument about those "ridiculous claims" but you and i both know that this is not the right place to do it.

I have, at no point, labelled your beliefs ridiculous. I have labelled your claims regarding longer living, stronger, bigger humans as ridiculous. The simple reason being because they are based on false logic and fallacious ideas.

My initial response was not aggressive, but you simply reposted and earlier item of yours as if I had ignored it and restated your initial claims. Which is why my next reply wasn't as kind.

I will not discuss specific religious content of posts, but I will respond to anything of a scientific nature. In particular any claims known / provable to be incorrect.

 

[FizixFreak]

I have, at no point, labelled your beliefs ridiculous. I have labelled your claims regarding longer living, stronger, bigger humans as ridiculous. The simple reason being because they are based on false logic and fallacious ideas.

Maybe i misunderstood you there for that i am sorry as for "longer living" i admit i made some premature assumptions as far as "stronger and bigger" you can refer to my older post.

My initial response was not aggressive, but you simply reposted and earlier item of yours as if I had ignored it and restated your initial claims. Which is why my next reply wasn't as kind.

I can't clearly understand what you are trying to say here i took back the claim of bigger humans in ancient times earlier when did i restarted my initial claims?

I will not discuss specific religious content of posts, but I will respond to anything of a scientific nature. In particular any claims known / provable to be incorrect.

I was not talking about pure religious topic i was talking about discussing religion in the light of science sorry for not making my self so clear.

 

[JaredJames]

I can't clearly understand what you are trying to say here i took back the claim of bigger humans in ancient times earlier when did i restarted my initial claims?

It was simply that your response to my post was you saying "you can't deny humans lived longer". That is what I was referring to.

I was not talking about pure religious topic i was talking about discussing religion in the light of science sorry for not making my self so clear.

OK I understand. Unfortunately the two don't mix nicely.

Now all is clarified, let's get back to the OP.