Can I call myself a physicist yet?

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The discussion revolves around the qualifications and titles associated with being a physicist. Participants debate whether one can call themselves a physicist without a PhD, with opinions varying widely. Some argue that a PhD is necessary, while others believe that anyone with a degree in physics or who actively engages in physics-related work can claim the title. The conversation touches on the distinction between being a student, a researcher, and a professional physicist, with some participants suggesting that job titles should reflect one's current role and responsibilities. There is also a discussion about the relevance of job titles in different contexts, such as academia versus industry, and the implications of using titles like "engineer" or "physicist" without formal credentials. The thread highlights the complexities of identity and professional titles in the scientific community, emphasizing that the definition of a physicist can vary based on individual perspectives and experiences.
  • #51
Cyrus said:
What?...

What didn't you understand?
 
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  • #52
Ivan Seeking said:
Tell me this: Are all engineers the same? Do all engineers bring the same knowledge and skills to the table?

Certainly not! I am studying for a BEng (Hons) in Aerospace Engineering. I am taught 50% of my course in classes with only other aero students, and the other 50% (mainly the pure maths/stats stuff) with the mechanical engineers. However there is also the civil engineers who are educated completely separate from us, plus there are the Bio and Chemical engineers who are trained in a whole other section of the uni and nothing what so ever related to us (I've never even met one).

I personally conside myself a Student Aerospace Engineer, and when I start my placement next month I will be classed as a Student Aerospace Engineer which, if successful and offered a full time job after completing my studies, I would still be an Aerospace Engineer, but the job title would be Project Engineer. To me, it's simply a matter of what I want to call it when someone asks me what I do, I prefer Aerospace Engineer as it is more specific to what I am/will be trained to do. Although based on any experience and future work, I may change this to a more suited title. From what I have read, the title of Project Engineer simply means you are experienced enough to work on projects by yourself (without supervision) and has absolutely no bearing on what you are actually qualified in (hence me preferring aerospace engineer.
 
  • #53
Cyrus said:
I don't understand the point of this post.

I was replying to the thread and Ivan. Simply knowing engineering doesn't make you an engineer. You have to have the knowledge added with the necessary degree.

But, isn't there some type of philosophy that opposes what I said in the aforementioned? I think I read something about it a while back.
 
  • #54
Ivan Seeking said:
What didn't you understand?

Your post.
 
  • #55
//:phoenix:\\ said:
Simply knowing engineering doesn't make you an engineer. You have to have the knowledge added with the necessary degree.

That is a nonsensical statement.
 
  • #56
Ivan Seeking said:
Well, I've had my own company for 11 years and I do all sorts of engineering. In fact, my career was made by solving problems that stumped the band.

Don't you need a degree also as you stated you could get sued?

That nonsensical statement.

What made it nonsensical?
 
  • #57
You are all over-complicating this.

According to Wikipedia, "A physicist is a scientist who studies or practices physics", and "A scientist, in the broadest sense, refers to any person that engages in a systematic activity to acquire knowledge".

According to Dictionary.com,

A physicist is "a scientist who specializes in physics," a Scientist is "A person having expert knowledge of one or more sciences, especially a natural or physical science," and a specialist is "One who is devoted to a particular occupation or branch of study or research."

According to Merriem-Webster, a scientist is "a specialist in physics," and a specialist is "one who concentrates their efforts on a particular occupation, practice, or branch of learning."

Clearly, to be a physicist according to these sources, you don't need a PhD, you don't need to work for a government lab, you only need to be someone who is currently devoted and has a current expertise, in physics.

So there you have it, fartmaster...you can call yourself a physicist.
 
  • #58
Just out of curiosity, when people here think of physics are you thinking quantum mechanics and such or are you thinking more along the lines of A level (high school) physics? Because physics in the A level sense had a lot of mechanics in them and as such are very applicable to engineering, whereas a physics degree won't be quite so engineering involved.
 
  • #59
//:phoenix:\\ said:
Don't you need a degree also as you stated you could get sued?
What made it nonsensical?

Go back and reread what you wrote. You contradicted yourself.

You don't need a degree in engineering to do engineering work. No one is going to sue you. This is all nonsense.

For the last time, you need *in some cases* an engineering degree, if you want to do work that requires a licensed engineer to sign off on something. That's it.
 
  • #60
You don't need a degree to be an engineer, a degree simply gives you a piece of paper that proves you have the knowledge as opposed to not having one where an employer would have to take your word for it. I have met many non-degree engineers who know a hell of a lot more than some graduates.
 
  • #61
I see where you might "think" contradiction is elicited.

You don't need a degree to be an engineer, a degree simply gives you a piece of paper that proves you have the knowledge as opposed to not having one where an employer would have to take your word for it. I have met many non-degree engineers who know a hell of a lot more than some graduates.

I see graduates earning more money than the ones without any degree. I also see a lot more graduates in the field than non-graduates.
 
  • #62
Cyrus said:
For the last time, you need *in some cases* an engineering degree, if you want to do work that requires a licensed engineer to sign off on something. That's it.

Cyrus is right here. If you are to become chartered you need a degree. To prove you hold the knowledge required.
 
  • #63
//:phoenix:\\ said:
I see where you might "think" contradiction is elicited.

I don't "think" you contradicted yoursef, you did contradict yourself.

Simply knowing engineering doesn't make you an engineer. You have to have the knowledge added with the necessary degree.

Is a blatant contradiction. How can you have 'added' knowledge with a degree, if you already KNOW engineering? The first sentence implies that you WONT get "added" anything with an engineering degree.
 
  • #64
//:phoenix:\\ said:
I see graduates earning more money than the ones without any degree. I also see a lot more graduates in the field than non-graduates.

...and?
 
  • #65
Who mentioned pay? As a graduate aero engineer I am looking at an average wage of £25000PA. Now, I know a number of non-degree level engineers earning 40K plus.
 
  • #66
Cyrus, you say you know engineering. Could I just ask how much experience you have with it and what level of knowledge you would consider yourself to have.
 
  • #67
Knowing engineering doesn't make you an engineer correct? What makes you an engineer is the degree proving your claim. Hey! I am a physicist, biologist, engineer, mathematician, botanist, neurological surgeon, and radiologist. Prove it? No, no, no, just take my word on it. I will just use google to complete any task necessary. The only reason you saw it as contradiction was because I lacked clarity and ample explanation.

...and?

I was simply replying to a post.
 
  • #68
jarednjames said:
Cyrus, you say you know engineering. Could I just ask how much experience you have with it and what level of knowledge you would consider yourself to have.

I have a BS in Mechanical, working on an MS in aero, and do work for two small private companies in the Aerospace Industry and NASA.

What experience do you have?
 
  • #69
//:phoenix:\\ said:
Knowing engineering doesn't make you an engineer correct? What makes you an engineer is the degree proving your claim. Hey! I am a physicist, biologist, engineer, mathematician, botanist, neurological surgeon, and radiologist. Prove it? No, no, no, just take my word on it. I will just use google to complete any task necessary. The only reason you saw it as contradiction was because I lacked clarity and ample explanation.

I was simply replying to a post.

I'm not sure what the point of this post was....it's absurd.
 
  • #70
I'm a student of Aerospace Engineering BEng (Hons) at Kingston Uni London. I was just asking as from a previous post you made I didn't think you had a degree from the context of it. But was going to make the point that a person who has worked in the engineering industry without a degree for a number of years, is going to be more of an engineer than myself.

Now I don't and won't consider myself an engineer until graduation. Do you consider yourself an engineer? or do you have another title?

I'm actually very impressed with what you have put there. Sounds like a very interesting job you have. Hope I can go the same way.
 
  • #71
jarednjames said:
I'm a student of Aerospace Engineering BEng (Hons) at Kingston Uni London. I was just asking as from a previous post you made I didn't think you had a degree from the context of it. But was going to make the point that a person who has worked in the engineering industry without a degree for a number of years, is going to be more of an engineer than myself.

Now I don't and won't consider myself an engineer until graduation. Do you consider yourself an engineer? or do you have another title?

Sorry, I didn't mean to ask you if you were an engineer. I mixed you up with //:phoenix:\\. (You had already said you studied Aero earlier).
 
  • #72
What makes you an engineer is the degree. That is what I have been saying for the past couple of posts. You don't have a degree, then you are not an engineer.
 
  • #73
//:phoenix:\\ said:
What makes you an engineer is the degree. That is what I have been saying for the past couple of posts.

This is wrong. I've already said a several times now exactly *when* you need an official engineering degree.
 
  • #74
Pheonix, tell me something, when the engineer comes round to your house to fix your boiler do you believe they have a degree? They don't!
 
  • #75
Actually, it is right. Why do people study to become engineers? That question is all I need to refute your claim saying I am wrong. Either come up with an effective counter-argument instead of, "you're wrong," and, "that is absurd and nonsensical," or stop replying. I have yet to see anything substantiating your claim of makes a person an engineer.
 
  • #76
Pheonix, are you an engineer?
 
  • #77
Cyrus said:
This is wrong. I've already said a several times now exactly *when* you need an official engineering degree.

In Canada, you need a professional licence. No professional license and you're aren't an engineer. Done.

Do they have that in the US?
 
  • #78
//:phoenix:\\ said:
Actually, it is right. Why do people study to become engineers?

I can't speak for why other people become engineers.

That question is all I need to refute your claim saying I am wrong. Either come up with an effective counter-argument instead of, "you're wrong," and, "that is absurd and nonsensical," or stop replying. I have yet to see anything substantiating your claim of makes a person an engineer.

...I'm talking to a wall.
 
  • #79
Pheonix, people study for an engineering degree because the course gives a comprehensive understanding in engineering principles (e.g. maths, structural mechanics) and some business features (project management etc.). In my first year I learned about mixing concrete what possible use could I have for that in aerospace engineering?

Are you saying a person who has not followed a degree course, but has acquired the equivelant knowledge perhaps through practical experience which immediately elevates them above a graduate with no experience, is not an engineer?

Those two are equal, only one has a piece of paper saying they finished a course.

Pheonix once again are you an engineer?
 
  • #80
...I'm talking to a wall.

Likewise...

Pheonix, are you an engineer?

I m studying to become one but I am clearly not an engineer. Once I have a degree I will be as that proves that I have acquired the knowledge.
Are you saying a person who has not followed a degree course, but has acquired the equivelant knowledge perhaps through practical experience which immediately elevates them above a graduate with no experience, is not an engineer?

I won't answer this hypothetical question.
 
  • #81
JasonRox said:
In Canada, you need a professional licence. No professional license and you're aren't an engineer. Done.

Do they have that in the US?

There are different classifications of engineers in the US, in order of *legal* responsibility:

Unlicensed
Engineer in Training
Professional EngineerThey can all do engineering work, but if anything requires signing only the PE can sign off on it.
That's why a PE gets paid more money (money as good as or more than a PhD), because even a PhD cannot sign off on things unless they also get a PE.
 
  • #82
Can I call myself a doctor?

I think I am call myself physicist, Phd, biologist, .. without getting into any trouble
 
  • #83
rootX said:
Can I call myself a doctor?

I think I am call myself physicist, Phd, biologist, .. without getting into any trouble

You make good posts from time to time, knock yourself out, Dr.
 
  • #84
Cyrus said:
There are different classifications of engineers in the US, in order of *legal* responsibility:

Unlicensed
Engineer in Training
Professional Engineer


They can all do engineering work, but if anything requires signing only the PE can sign off on it.
That's why a PE gets paid more money (money as good as or more than a PhD), because even a PhD cannot sign off on things unless they also get a PE.

So if I score an Engineering related job, can I call myself an Engineer? (B. Sc. Mathematics)

Are you going by the title of the job only?

Just curious.
 
  • #85
It isn't hypothetical, it happens. Before aircraft, there were only mechanical engineers and so aerospace engineers were only described as such based on the knowledge gained from research in the field, not from a degree.
 
  • #86
Cyrus said:
They can all do engineering work

No, I don't think they can do all kind of engineering work. You need to have an experience i.e. a fresh graduate cannot go and design a complex system. There is a rational behind coming up with that PE.

I didn't reply in the other thread IIRC.. so replying to that too here
 
  • #87
This place has turned crazy. I am an astrobiologist and tomorrow I'll be a psychotherapist and clinically diagnose this place with a mild delusional disorder.
 
  • #88
rootX said:
No, I don't think they can do all kind of engineering work. You need to have an experience i.e. a fresh graduate cannot go and design a complex system. There is a rational behind coming up with that PE.

Cyrus didnt say all kinds of engineering, just that they can all do engineering work.
 
  • #89
Pheonix, if you had a good knowledge of astrobiology then yes you could call yourself one.
 
  • #90
JasonRox said:
So if I score an Engineering related job, can I call myself an Engineer? (B. Sc. Mathematics)

Are you going by the title of the job only?

Just curious.

Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

You can say: "Hi, I'm Jason and I'm an engineer!"
Me: "Whats your degree in?"
You: "My formal training was in mathematics"
Me: "Are you licensed?"
You: "No"
 
  • #91
//:phoenix:\\ said:
This place has turned crazy. I am an astrobiologist and tomorrow I'll be a psychotherapist and clinically diagnose this place with a mild delusional disorder.

Could you please, stop posting this kind of stuff. It's tiring and old and serves no purpose.
 
  • #92
Cyrus said:
Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

You can say: "Hi, I'm Jason and I'm an engineer!"
Me: "Whats your degree in?"
You: "My formal training was in mathematics"
Me: "Are you licensed?"
You: "No"

Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.
 
  • #93
The good ol' profane use of language on the forums.

It isn't hypothetical, it happens. Before aircraft, there were only mechanical engineers and so aerospace engineers were only described as such based on the knowledge gained from research in the field, not from a degree.

Not saying it isn't true but cite your sources please.

Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

Then what am I studying it for? I know I would need some field work and that is one of the requirements so I will get it, but studying is also one of the factors of what makes you an engineer. Not having a degree in the field doesn't make you an engineer. Heard of the word credentials?
 
  • #94
Pheonix, here is the definition of engineer:

Engineer \En`gi*neer"\, n. [OE. enginer: cf. OF. engignier, F. ing['e]nieur. See Engine, n.]

1. A person skilled in the principles and practice of any branch of engineering. See under Engineering, n.

2. One who manages as engine, particularly a steam engine; an engine driver.

3. One who carries through an enterprise by skillful or artful contrivance; an efficient manager. [Colloq.]

Civil engineer, a person skilled in the science of civil engineering.

Military engineer, one who executes engineering works of a military nature. See under Engineering.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)



Engineer \En`gi*neer"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Engineered; p. pr. & vb. n. Engineering.]

1. To lay out or construct, as an engineer; to perform the work of an engineer on; as, to engineer a road. --J. Hamilton.

2. To use contrivance and effort for; to guide the course of; to manage; as, to engineer a bill through Congress. [Colloq.]At what point does it say degree?
 
  • #95
Pheonix, you are studying engineering, because the quickest and most effective way to gain the knowledge required to do the work of an engineer is to complete a course on it (in my case 3-5 years). The degree simply shows you have completed said course.
 
  • #96
JasonRox said:
Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

I didn't use the word *Studying* mathematics anywhere. There was a reason why I was *careful* in what I said.

Please be *careful* reading what I *write*.
 
  • #97
Cyrus said:
I didn't use the word *Studying* mathematics anywhere. There was a reason why I was *careful* in what I said.

Please be *careful* reading what I *write*.

Um... I *agreed* implicitly.
 
  • #98
JasonRox said:
Just curious.
.

For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

For Mathematicians, because they don't make things that can endanger people lives so there's no need to have any for legal definitions for it. Everyone whose work affects public directly should need a license IMO.
 
  • #99
JasonRox said:
Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

As I stated earlier, until graduation I refuse to call myself an engineer. But that is simply because until then I won't consider myself to have the knowledge required to do the job of one. Even then I think I would want some experience which is what my one year placement is for.
 
  • #100
rootX said:
For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

For Mathematicians, because they don't make things that can endanger people lives so there's no need to have any for legal definitions for it. Everyone whose work affects public directly should need a license IMO.

Exactly, cause I met "engineers" according to Cyrus but I know in Canada the attitude is totally different.

I met people here who do "engineer" type jobs but again some of them will say they are not an "engineer" based on the fact they are not licenced.
 

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