Can I call myself a physicist yet?

[Cyrus]

This place has turned crazy. I am an astrobiologist and tomorrow I'll be a psychotherapist and clinically diagnose this place with a mild delusional disorder.

Could you please, stop posting this kind of stuff. It's tiring and old and serves no purpose.

 

[JasonRox]

Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

You can say: "Hi, I'm Jason and I'm an engineer!"
Me: "Whats your degree in?"
You: "My formal training was in mathematics"
Me: "Are you licensed?"
You: "No"

Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

The good ol' profane use of language on the forums.

It isn't hypothetical, it happens. Before aircraft, there were only mechanical engineers and so aerospace engineers were only described as such based on the knowledge gained from research in the field, not from a degree.

Not saying it isn't true but cite your sources please.

Sure, you are being paid to do engineering work. You are actually *doing* engineering work. Thats what the very definition of being an engineer means. Someone who is trained to DO engineering work. Not STUDY engineering work, DO engineering work.

Then what am I studying it for? I know I would need some field work and that is one of the requirements so I will get it, but studying is also one of the factors of what makes you an engineer. Not having a degree in the field doesn't make you an engineer. Heard of the word credentials?

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, here is the definition of engineer:

Engineer \En`gi*neer"\, n. [OE. enginer: cf. OF. engignier, F. ing['e]nieur. See Engine, n.]

1. A person skilled in the principles and practice of any branch of engineering. See under Engineering, n.

2. One who manages as engine, particularly a steam engine; an engine driver.

3. One who carries through an enterprise by skillful or artful contrivance; an efficient manager. [Colloq.]

Civil engineer, a person skilled in the science of civil engineering.

Military engineer, one who executes engineering works of a military nature. See under Engineering.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)



Engineer \En`gi*neer"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Engineered; p. pr. & vb. n. Engineering.]

1. To lay out or construct, as an engineer; to perform the work of an engineer on; as, to engineer a road. --J. Hamilton.

2. To use contrivance and effort for; to guide the course of; to manage; as, to engineer a bill through Congress. [Colloq.]At what point does it say degree?

 

[JaredJames]

Pheonix, you are studying engineering, because the quickest and most effective way to gain the knowledge required to do the work of an engineer is to complete a course on it (in my case 3-5 years). The degree simply shows you have completed said course.

 

[Cyrus]

Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

I didn't use the word *Studying* mathematics anywhere. There was a reason why I was *careful* in what I said.

Please be *careful* reading what I *write*.

 

[JasonRox]

I didn't use the word *Studying* mathematics anywhere. There was a reason why I was *careful* in what I said.

Please be *careful* reading what I *write*.

Um... I *agreed* implicitly.

 

[rootX]

Just curious.
.

For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

For Mathematicians, because they don't make things that can endanger people lives so there's no need to have any for legal definitions for it. Everyone whose work affects public directly should need a license IMO.

 

[JaredJames]

Just curious.

I wouldn't want people saying they are Mathematicians merely because they study mathematics. That would bother me. I met many dumb students studying mathematics... of course, most don't graduate.

As I stated earlier, until graduation I refuse to call myself an engineer. But that is simply because until then I won't consider myself to have the knowledge required to do the job of one. Even then I think I would want some experience which is what my one year placement is for.

 

[JasonRox]

For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

For Mathematicians, because they don't make things that can endanger people lives so there's no need to have any for legal definitions for it. Everyone whose work affects public directly should need a license IMO.

Exactly, cause I met "engineers" according to Cyrus but I know in Canada the attitude is totally different.

I met people here who do "engineer" type jobs but again some of them will say they are not an "engineer" based on the fact they are not licenced.

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

I am talking about the contextual use, not the definition of an engineer. The popular meaning of what makes person (insert said field). The root meaning was overridden by the singularity of the widespread use of what makes a physicist, therapist, and soldier. As, if you don't have the degree you won't be known as an engineer.

A person skilled in the principles and practice of any branch of engineering.

That heavily implies it.

As I stated earlier, until graduation I refuse to call myself an engineer. But that is simply because until then I won't consider myself to have the knowledge required to do the job of one. Even then I think I would want some experience which is what my one year placement is for.

So you basically agree with me, right? It's just that you disagree with my notion of what makes an actual engineer?

 

[JasonRox]

As I stated earlier, until graduation I refuse to call myself an engineer. But that is simply because until then I won't consider myself to have the knowledge required to do the job of one. Even then I think I would want some experience which is what my one year placement is for.

So, you can graduate and then work at McDonald's afterwards but still call yourself an "engineer"?

That makes no sense to me.

 

[JaredJames]

For engineers, I think it started because of a Canadian bridge collapse which was due to negligence. Before that everyone could call him/herself engineer but they made a law after that incident. I don't think there's any law for England even now.

No, we don't have any rules on it. That is why someone who fixes household appliances can call themselves an engineer. In any other profession they would be a technician / service person, but no we have people calling themselves engineers. This is why no one understands how difficult my degree actually is and when I do show them the maths work involved whether it is pure, stats or thermodynamics etc. they are shocked.

 

[JasonRox]

No, we don't have any rules on it. That is why someone who fixes household appliances can call themselves an engineer. In any other profession they would be a technician / service person, but no we have people calling themselves engineers. This is why no one understands how difficult my degree actually is and when I do show them the maths work involved whether it is pure, stats or thermodynamics etc. they are shocked.

Well, they are idiots.

 

[JaredJames]

I am talking about the contextual use, not the definition of an engineer. The popular meaning of what makes person (insert said field). The root meaning was overridden by the singularity of the widespread use of what makes a physicist, therapist, and soldier. As, if you don't have the degree you won't be known as an engineer.

That heavily implies it.

So you basically agree with me, right? It's just that you disagree with my notion of what makes an actual engineer?

I meant it in the sense that I will not have the skill set to do an engineers job until I graduate. But if someone develops the skills required without doing a degree course, it does not mean they are any less of an engineer. It just means they cannot become chartered. If you ask me, these days the only way to get the skills to do an engineering job is to do a degree, but just because you don't do a degree doesn't mean you are less of an engineer than someone with one.

 

[JaredJames]

So, you can graduate and then work at McDonald's afterwards but still call yourself an "engineer"?

That makes no sense to me.

No, with todays 'employee management' I'd probably be a 'food technician' or some bull like that. But anyway, regardless of the job I do I still retain the knowledge gained and so could certainly call myself it.

But to me, the job also plays a part in determining what you call yourself. If I work in an engineering role, whether I have a degree or not, as long as the knowledge and skills are there I am considered and engineer.

If you have the knowledge required and perform a job in the role of an engineer, then you are an engineer.

So what you guys are saying is, if a person without a degree applies for a job as an engineer, proves he has the ability to do it and gets it, because he lacks that piece of paper the role suddenly becomes something else and not an engineering one? The person is not considered an engineer despite doing the same work as a person with a degree?

 

[//:phoenix:\\]

No, we don't have any rules on it. That is why someone who fixes household appliances can call themselves an engineer. In any other profession they would be a technician / service person, but no we have people calling themselves engineers. This is why no one understands how difficult my degree actually is and when I do show them the maths work involved whether it is pure, stats or thermodynamics etc. they are shocked.

I will never believe this. Call me whatever you want but if someone only knows how to fix household appliances but not exactly the mathematics behind it, then they aren't engineers. They are skilled-workers.

So what you guys are saying is, if a person without a degree applies for a job as an engineer, proves he has the ability to do it and gets it, because he lacks that piece of paper the role suddenly becomes something else and not an engineering one? The person is not considered an engineer despite doing the same work as a person with a degree?

I would guess the person wouldn't have the knowledge I've acquired through school so, no I would not call him/her an engineer. I can't speak for the other guy but that is just my view on it.

 

[JaredJames]

I will never believe this. Call me whatever you want but if someone only knows how to fix household appliances but not exactly the mathematics behind it, then they aren't engineers. They are skilled-workers.

Tell that to british gas:
"Smell gas, give us a ring and we'll have an engineer round to you ASAP." That so called engineer doesn't know the mathematics of how boilers work, most are simply gas fitters who are corgi registered, no degree required there.

I would guess the person wouldn't have the knowledge I've acquired through school so, no I would not call him/her an engineer. I can't speak for the other guy but that is just my view on it.

Well there's your problem. You guess/assume. You fresh out of uni with no industrial experience are not going to beat an experienced person with a long resume of career successes in the engineering field just because they lack a piece of paper.

 

[rootX]

You fresh out of uni with no industrial experience are not going to beat an experienced person with a long resume of career successes in the engineering field just because they lack a piece of paper.

Lets remove all the restrictions and let everyone work as a engineer who wants to. Why we even have restrictions for doctors or policemen then? Let's also remove their restrictions too...

If tomorrow something wrong happens, don't go look for Engineering regulation body .. (or a body that maintains the profession)

 

[Cyrus]

Let's all stop for a moment and reflect on this thread and ask ourselves.

Why the hell does this really matter? I mean, honestly? Do you really need to call yourself x,y,z so you can feel good and sleep at night? If so, seek help.

How about you let your work speak for you - which is what I've been saying all along.

 

[Cyrus]

Lets remove all the restrictions and let everyone work as a engineer who wants to. Why we even have restrictions for doctors or policemen then? Let's also remove their restrictions too...

If tomorrow something wrong happens, don't go look for Engineering regulation body .. (or a body that maintains the profession)

Let's make good posts. I already explained this.

I hereby revoke your title of Dr.

 

[rootX]

Why the hell does this really matter? I mean, honestly? Do you really need to call yourself x,y,z so you can feel good and sleep at night? If so, seek help.

It's not about about the titles/names but the about legal/ethical accountability. I am only going for having legal restrictions for particular professions like engineers/police/doctors I don't care about the titles itself.

These (legal) names/title were made to prevent mistakes not just because of some irrational reason.

 

[Pengwuino]

Why the hell does this really matter? I mean, honestly? Do you really need to call yourself x,y,z so you can feel good and sleep at night?

Yes.

If so, seek help.

No.

This thread is hilarious.

 

[Cyrus]

It's not about about the titles/names but the about legal/ethical accountability. I only going for having legal restrictions for particular professions like engineers/police/doctors I don't care about the titles itself.

These (legal) names/title were made to prevent mistakes not just because of some irrational reason.

I *already* EXPLAINED what the legal implications are, mannnnnnnnnn.

<This thread annoys me because people don't *LISTEN*>

 

[JaredJames]

Lets remove all the restrictions and let everyone work as a engineer who wants to. Why we even have restrictions for doctors or policemen then? Let's also remove their restrictions too...

Policemen don't have degrees. It isn't required. They train to be proficient at the job.

The only way to get experience as a doctor is to do a degree and then work as an intern in a hospital.

Cut the crap, now you are clutching at straws.

To be a chef you either go to college and then work under a head chef. Or you start at the bottom in a kitchen and work your way up. Still considered a chef either way.

 

[Cyrus]

Yes.
No.

This thread is hilarious.

I hereby make you Dr. for not being annoying.

 

[Cyrus]

http://ui08.gamespot.com/1735/failed_2.jpg

Ahhh, it had to be done folks. It had to be done.

 

[JaredJames]

I find it strange pheonix that under your view of this, you would consider a person who learns to pass the exams to get a degree yet retains no knowledge/skills, to be an engineer, but would take a person who is highly skilled and holds a huge knowledge of engineering principles and cast them aside as a nothing simply because they have no degree.

 

[JaredJames]

Ahhh, it had to be done folks. It had to be done.

Yes Cyrus, YES IT DID!

 

[humanino]

Degrees, titles, even academic positions have little to do with being a physicist, a musician, a painter, a hunter, a pilot, a fireman, a thief or a murderer. A piece of paper does not change your personality. If you are passionate for something and live every day with this passion, who cares what other people call you ?

The profession does not honor the man, it is the man who honors the profession.
(Victor Hugo, poorly translated)