Can Mass Become Lower Than Rest Mass, Leading to Imaginary Velocity?

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    Imaginary Velocity
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of mass in relation to velocity, specifically exploring the hypothetical scenario where an object's mass becomes lower than its rest mass, potentially leading to an imaginary velocity. Participants engage with theoretical implications and interpretations of mass and energy within the framework of relativistic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mathematical exploration of mass and velocity, suggesting that if mass were to drop below rest mass, it could lead to an imaginary velocity.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of Tachyons, which are hypothetical particles that would have imaginary mass and super-luminal velocity, as a related idea.
  • A participant clarifies the distinction between imaginary velocity and imaginary mass, emphasizing the focus on mass being lower than rest mass.
  • One response suggests that the 'opposite of velocity' might imply that an object would need velocity added to it to reach a state of rest.
  • Another participant argues that the rest mass is special because it is frame invariant, implying that obtaining a lower mass than rest mass is not possible within the framework of physics.
  • A later reply challenges the use of relativistic mass, stating that energy should be considered instead, and asserts that there is no meaningful way to achieve lower energy than the rest mass energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of mass being lower than rest mass, with some exploring the theoretical aspects and others challenging the feasibility of such a scenario. No consensus is reached on the validity of the initial hypothesis or the implications of imaginary velocity.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the discussion, such as the dependence on definitions of mass and energy, and the unresolved nature of the mathematical implications regarding imaginary values.

NegativeGPA
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So, according to my understanding,

m= m_o/√(1-(v^2/c^2 ))

gives the mass of an object in respect to the object's original mass and its velocity. I wondered what happened if the mass of an object became lower than the rest mass? [I have no idea how this would happen, but it was a, what if it did? kind of question]

I made the substitution m=m_o-a for some arbitrary amount lower than the rest mass. After solving the equation for velocity, i got

v=c√(1-(m_o^2/(m_o-a)^2 )

in the equation, you can see that,
(m_o-a)^2 < m_o^2

thus,
(m_o^2/(m_o-a)^2 > 1

so we would end up with the square root of a negative number, giving the object with an imaginary velocity.

This matched my predictions because the reason I wondered this was because I wanted to know what was so special about the rest mass of an object. Why is that amount of energy in that amount of space a particle, and why does additional energy cause what we call velocity? So i assumed that a lower amount of energy would do somehow the opposite of velocity, but what is that?
 
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I'm not sure exactly what your asking but this could help:
When the rest mass of an object becomes imaginary this is the description of a Tachyon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon
The Tachyon's velocity would hence be super-luminal.
 
Haha thanks, but I'm talking about an imaginary velocity, not an imaginary mass.

I'm asking what would happen if an object's mass became lower than its rest mass, and apparently it has an imaginary velocity. I'm asking if anyone has any idea what that means
 
I suppose the 'opposite of velocity' would make it so that the object required velocity to be added to it in order to be brought to a state of rest.
 
NegativeGPA said:
...what was so special about the rest mass of an object. Why is that amount of energy in that amount of space a particle, and why does additional energy cause what we call velocity? So i assumed that a lower amount of energy would do somehow the opposite of velocity, but what is that?

Well, the rest mass is special because it is frame invariant (this may seem slightly circular but the rest frame has unique properties, so we are not being arbitrary at least), so we may be justified in thinking it a property of the object rather than something just due to the way we look at it.

I think the fact that you are getting imaginary numbers out really just tells you that it is not possible to go to some reference frame where your object has a lower mass than in the rest frame. All measurable observables are real numbers in physics.
 
NegativeGPA said:
So, according to my understanding,

m= m_o/√(1-(v^2/c^2 ))
Please, do not use this relativistic mass. Apart from some old books, nobody uses it any more. You mean the energy of the particle:
E= m c^2 /√(1-(v^2/c^2 ))

At rest, the energy is E = m c^2. This is the lowest possible energy of the particle. If it moves, you add kinetic energy and the total energy has to increase. There is no way to get a lower energy, and therefore you should not expect a meaningful result in your calculation.
 

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