Can string theory include fermions without supersymmetry?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential inclusion of fermions in string theory without relying on supersymmetry. Participants explore various theoretical frameworks and models, considering implications if supersymmetry is not observed at the LHC. The scope includes theoretical considerations, alternative models, and the relationship between string theory and particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is possible to quantize the string action using anti-commutation relations to include fermions without supersymmetry.
  • Another participant mentions that there are ways to have supersymmetry realized in the target space while not being present on the worldsheet.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the concept of "hidden sectors," suggesting that supersymmetry might not be detectable at the LHC due to a proliferation of channels that dilute signals.
  • Several participants inquire about the reasons for expecting supersymmetry at the TeV scale and whether the absence of evidence from the LHC would rule out string theory or allow for the possibility of shifting supersymmetry to higher energies.
  • One participant proposes a quark/gluon dual model, discussing equations related to the number of generations and quark types, while noting limitations regarding the Higgs coupling.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of supersymmetry for including fermions in string theory. There is no consensus on whether the absence of supersymmetry at the LHC would invalidate string theory or if it could simply be shifted to higher energies. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of hidden sectors and the viability of alternative models.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between string theory and particle physics, particularly regarding the role of supersymmetry and the challenges of detection at the LHC. There are unresolved assumptions about the nature of fermions and their interactions within string theory frameworks.

petergreat
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I'm taking an introductory string theory course which focuses on bosonic string theory. The lecturer says to include fermions supersymmetry must be included (aka. superstrings). If we face the event that the LHC fails to find any supersymmetry at TeV scale and the physics community lose faith in supersymmetry, are there any alternative ways of dealing with fermions in string theory? My knowledge is still very limited (basic QFT), but what comes into my mind is the following: is it possible to quantize the string action using anti-commutation relations? Or maybe this is wrong because string theory gives rise to gravitons with spin 2 which is not spin half?
 
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It occurred to me, rather independently of the above, there are models of "hidden sectors" where supersymmetry is hard to find at the LHC essentially because of a proliferation of channels, the signal gets diluted. I'm not sure the original question points in this direction, and I have little familiarity with this, so I will not point to a reference, but "hidden sector" is the keyword if you want to google it.
 
Are there hints why SUSYshould exist at the TeV scale? If the LHC does not find SUSY,does this rule out string theory (and MSSM, SUGRA etc.) or isn't it simply possible to "shift" SUSY to higher energies?
 
tom.stoer said:
Are there hints why SUSYshould exist at the TeV scale?
There are discussions about the use of "naturalness" in model building, especially with historical perspective we would be foolish to put all our apples in the same basket. With this grain of salt, yes it is much more natural to have supersymmetry come in the game around the electroweak scale. But as above, it could be hidden.
tom.stoer said:
If the LHC does not find SUSY,does this rule out string theory (and MSSM, SUGRA etc.) or isn't it simply possible to "shift" SUSY to higher energies?
It is always possible to push it where we can't see it, but it is also possible that the LHC would not be "clean" enough (because of the difficulties to understand backgrounds, in particular hadronic) with so-called hidden sectors.
 
There is also the joke I was doing in the other thread. If you take that the fermions are the quarks but the bosons are the terminated gluon sector, in the spirit (and probably exactly as) of http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0370-2693(71)90028-1 , then you can use my hep-ph/0512065 to get a pair of equations for the number of generations, the number of light UP quarks and the number of light DOWN quarks:

D U = 2N

D(D + 1)/2 = 2N

So at least in this sense a quark/gluon dual model is realistic. Problem is, that this supersymmetry does not seem to control the Higgs, because the scalar partners are the usual mesons and diquarks, which do not couple to it.

Edit: note the simplest solutions of the above pair, from 2 U = D +1, are D=3, U=2. If you add the matching conditions for mesons too, you get an (bit ad hoc, but argued in later papers) extra equation for the count of the neutrino sector, 4 N = U^2 + D^2 -1, fixing the answer. Even without the fix, you can discard the next solution in terms of ugliness: D=7 U=4 N=14.
 
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