Can the dimension of a basis be less than the space that it spans?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of vector spaces and their dimensions, specifically addressing whether the dimension of a basis can be less than the space it spans. Participants explore the properties of a subspace defined by a linear equation in $\mathbb{R^2$ and the implications for basis representation and dimensionality.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the subspace $S$ defined by $2x + 3y = 0$ has a basis consisting of the vector $(-\frac{3}{2}, 1)$, suggesting that this is a valid basis for $S$.
  • There is a claim that to express the vector $u = (-9, 6)$ in the basis $B$, one must find a linear combination of the basis vector, leading to the conclusion that $[u]_B = [6]$.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the dimensionality of $S$, initially believing it to be 2, but others clarify that $S$ has dimension 1.
  • Another participant reflects on the relationship between the dimension of $S$ and the trivial basis of $\mathbb{R^2}$, which has dimension 2, indicating a misunderstanding of how dimensions relate to subspaces.
  • Participants discuss the definition of dimension in relation to the number of vectors in a basis, with some emphasizing that the dimension of a basis matches the dimension of the space it spans.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is a general agreement that the dimension of the subspace $S$ is 1 and that it can be spanned by a single vector. However, there is some confusion regarding the relationship between the dimensions of $S$ and $\mathbb{R^2}$, indicating a lack of consensus on the understanding of dimensionality in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and relationships between the dimensions of vector spaces and their bases, particularly in distinguishing between the dimensions of subspaces and the ambient space.

Pedro1
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Let S be a subspace of $\mathbb{R^2}$, such that $S=\{(x,y):2x+3y=0 \}$.
Find a basis,$B$, for $S$ and write $u=(-9,6)$ in the $B$ basis.

So, I started to solve $2x+3y=0$ for $x$ and I got $x=-\frac{3}{2}y$. Then I could write,

$\left[ \begin{matrix} x \\ y \end{matrix}\right] = \left[ \begin{matrix} -\frac{3}{2} y \\ y \end{matrix} \right] = y\left[ \begin{matrix} -\frac{3}{2} \\ 1 \end{matrix} \right]$

So I was force to conclued that S is spaned by the vector $(-\frac{3}{2},1)$. My doubt is if it is correct to assume that $\{(-\frac{3}{2},1) \}$ is a basis of $S$. Because, in this circunstances, I don't know how to write the vector $u$ in the basis $B$.
Thanks for the help.
 
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Pedro said:
Let S be a subspace of $\mathbb{R^2}$, such that $S=\{(x,y):2x+3y=0 \}$.
Find a basis,$B$, for $S$ and write $u=(-9,6)$ in the $B$ basis.

So, I started to solve $2x+3y=0$ for $x$ and I got $x=-\frac{3}{2}y$. Then I could write,

$\left[ \begin{matrix} x \\ y \end{matrix}\right] = \left[ \begin{matrix} -\frac{3}{2} y \\ y \end{matrix} \right] = y\left[ \begin{matrix} -\frac{3}{2} \\ 1 \end{matrix} \right]$

So I was force to conclued that S is spaned by the vector $(-\frac{3}{2},1)$. My doubt is if it is correct to assume that $\{(-\frac{3}{2},1) \}$ is a basis of $S$. Because, in this circunstances, I don't know how to write the vector $u$ in the basis $B$.
Thanks for the help.

Welcome to MHB, Pedro! :)

Yes, you have a correct basis.

To write a vector in a basis, you need to find a linear combination of your basis vectors.
In your case that is $\mathbf u = 6 \cdot (-\frac{3}{2},1)$.

And to answer your question in the thread title, no, the number of vectors in a basis matches the dimension of the space they span by definition.
 
Pedro said:
Let S be a subspace of $\mathbb{R^2}$, such that $S=\{(x,y):2x+3y=0 \}$.
Find a basis,$B$, for $S$ and write $u=(-9,6)$ in the $B$ basis.

So, I started to solve $2x+3y=0$ for $x$ and I got $x=-\frac{3}{2}y$. Then I could write,

$\left[ \begin{matrix} x \\ y \end{matrix}\right] = \left[ \begin{matrix} -\frac{3}{2} y \\ y \end{matrix} \right] = y\left[ \begin{matrix} -\frac{3}{2} \\ 1 \end{matrix} \right]$

So I was force to conclued that S is spaned by the vector $(-\frac{3}{2},1)$. My doubt is if it is correct to assume that $\{(-\frac{3}{2},1) \}$ is a basis of $S$. Because, in this circunstances, I don't know how to write the vector $u$ in the basis $B$.
Thanks for the help.

We have $\left[ \begin{matrix} -9 \\ 6 \end{matrix}\right]=6\left[ \begin{matrix} -3/2 \\ 1 \end{matrix}\right]$. This implies that the coordinate vector of $u$ a in terms of $B=\{(-3/2,1)\}$ is $_B=[6]$ (only one coordinate).

P.S. Sorry I Like Serena, I had almost completed my post.
 
Thanks for the help.
I kown the the vector $u$ is on the trivial basis of $\mathbb{R^2}$ and so $(-9,6)=-9(1,0)+6(0,1)$. Normaly what I do is write each vector of the trivial basis as a linear combination of the given basis, in this case $B$.
But,

$(1,0)=\lambda\left (-\frac{3}{2},1 \right )$

I couln't find the $\lambda$.

The dimension of $B$ is $1$, but $S \subset \mathbb{R^2}$ have dimension $2$.
 
Pedro said:
but $S \subset \mathbb{R^2}$ have dimension $2$.

$S$ has dimension 1. :)
 
Fernando Revilla said:
$S$ has dimension 1. :)

Well, I thougt that the dimension was the number of vectors that the trivial basis have. In this case $\mathbb{R^2}$ have $2$.
 
Pedro said:
Well, I thougt that the dimension was the number of vectors that the trivial basis have. In this case $\mathbb{R^2}$ have $2$.

Yes. $\mathbb{R^2}$ has a trivial basis with 2 basis vectors, implying it has 2 dimensions.
Your S has a basis of 1 vector, implying it has 1 dimension.
 

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