Can the Electron be a Looped String

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    Electron String
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of the electron being represented as a looped string, as well as the shape of the proton in the context of string theory. Participants explore theoretical implications, experimental evidence, and personal interpretations related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the electron could be a loop with chirality, while others assert that current understanding considers the electron to be pointlike down to 10^{-18} m.
  • There is a suggestion that the proton could be modeled as a Boy knot, but some participants argue that experimental evidence rules this out.
  • Questions are raised about the experimental basis for claiming the electron cannot be a looped string, with calls for clarification on its shape.
  • One participant mentions that the electron's representation as a looped string depends on the specific string theory framework, particularly in the context of heterotic string theory.
  • Concerns are expressed about the lack of professional feedback on the topic, indicating a desire for more expert input.
  • A participant shares their experience with a physical model for the electron based on a closed loop structure, noting that they faced criticism from others in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the electron and proton, with no consensus reached on whether the electron can be considered a looped string or the implications of string theory on particle shapes. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific string theory interpretations and the unresolved nature of experimental evidence regarding the shapes of fundamental particles.

Buckeye
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On Brian Greene's presenation we can see various squiggles that are meant to be a rough picture of what Strings may look like.

Is it possible that the electron could be a loop that has some sort of chirality?

Is it possible that the proton could be in the form of a Boy knot?
 
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Buckeye said:
On Brian Greene's presenation we can see various squiggles that are meant to be a rough picture of what Strings may look like.
You told me once you have read about 80 books on QFT and related subject. Do you not have a better reference on string theory than Brian Greene ?
Is it possible that the electron could be a loop that has some sort of chirality?
Sure, anything is possible. So far the electron is pointlike down to [tex]10^{-18}[/tex] m. In string theory, the electron is not a loop.
Is it possible that the proton could be in the form of a Boy knot?
That however is already ruled out by experiment. We know the shape of the proton, and it is not a knot.
 
humanino said:
You told me once you have read about 80 books on QFT and related subject. Do you not have a better reference on string theory than Brian Greene ?Sure, anything is possible. So far the electron is pointlike down to [tex]10^{-18}[/tex] m. In string theory, the electron is not a loop.
That however is already ruled out by experiment. We know the shape of the proton, and it is not a knot.

Not yet.
How do we know the electron can not be a looped string? Has some experiment eliminated this shape?
Great. Then what is the shape? A Euclidean sphere or an oblate sphere or something else?
 
Buckeye said:
Not yet.
How do we know the electron can not be a looped string? Has some experiment eliminated this shape?
Great. Then what is the shape? A Euclidean sphere or an oblate sphere or something else?

Please, I told you the electron is pointlike to the best of our G$ equipement. You can claim there is whatever you want behind the mountain where nobody ever went. This is not science however.
 
humanino said:
Please, I told you the electron is pointlike to the best of our G$ equipement. You can claim there is whatever you want behind the mountain where nobody ever went. This is not science however.

Sorry, but I have made no claims. Why do you try to misconstrue my words?
Just because you think electrons can only be pointlike, does not make it true.
I am simply trying to answer one of Einstein's requests: "You know, it would be sufficient to really understand the electron." (see p108 of Barut's 1991 chapter in the book " The Electron: New Theory and Experiment"
 
Buckeye said:
Just because you think electrons can only be pointlike, does not make it true.
I do not just think, I measure. This is what I find out there in Nature...
 
humanino said:
I do not just think, I measure. This is what I find out there in Nature...

Sounds like you work at one of the Synchrotrons. Lucky you.
 
Buckeye said:
Sounds like you work at one of the Synchrotrons.
I don't. I do work with an accelerator however. But it is not a collider.
 
Seems that Marcus and the String Guys are ignoring this question. Too bad. I would have really liked some professional feedback.
 
  • #10
Buckeye said:
Seems that Marcus and the String Guys are ignoring this question. Too bad. I would have really liked some professional feedback.

Ehhh if you're a student at Ohio State, PM me and stop by my office :)

The question of whether the electron can be a looped string depends on the string theory you live in. Most of my work is in the heterotic string, and in that case the electron IS a looped string.

The proton, as we have tested experimentally, is definitely NOT a ``tied'' string. In fact, as far as I know strings DON'T tie. They can oscillate, but they don't twist.
 
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  • #11
BenTheMan said:
Ehhh if you're a student at Ohio State, PM me and stop by my office :)

The question of whether the electron can be a looped string depends on the string theory you live in. Most of my work is in the heterotic string, and in that case the electron IS a looped string.

The proton, as we have tested experimentally, is definitely NOT a ``tied'' string. In fact, as far as I know strings DON'T tie. They can oscillate, but they don't twist.

Got my BS in Chem there, but that was in 1976. After the PhD (U Nev) went to Japan for 13 yrs, came back to Silicon Valley in 1999. You'd love the weather here!

I tried to post a physical model for the electron that is based on a closed loop structure, but was soon shot down by various aggressive bots. If you're interested, then send me an e-mail: vince@xpsdata.com . I've been working on the kinematics with a PhD (UCB) friend for the past 5-6 years and have most everything covered, but no math, not my strong point. The plan is to write a book, since my idea draws so much flack.
 

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