Can this fusion cycle work in practice?

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    Fusion reaction
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of a proposed fusion cycle involving the reactions 1H + 2H = 3He and 3He + 2H = 4He + 1H. Participants explore the theoretical aspects of this cycle, its practical limitations, and the comparative efficiency of different fusion reactions, particularly in the context of deuterium fusion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the potential of the proposed fusion cycle but acknowledges practical limitations, such as varying temperatures for maximum efficiency and the predominance of D + D fusion reactions.
  • Another participant argues that the first reaction (1H + 2H) is significantly less common than D + D across relevant temperatures, estimating a difference of 6-8 orders of magnitude in fusion rates.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the first reaction is the prevalent fate of deuterium in stars, questioning the initial estimate of cross-section differences and suggesting that the conditions in fusion reactors differ from those in stellar environments.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the primordial deuterium to proton ratio and its impact on fusion reactions, particularly the competition between different deuterium reactions.
  • There is mention of the temperature dependence of thermonuclear reactions and how it relates to the Coulomb barrier, with some reactions having similar charge products but differing in their reaction rates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the viability and efficiency of the proposed fusion cycle, with no consensus reached on the comparative rates of the reactions discussed or the implications of the deuterium concentration in fusion reactors versus stars.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions about reaction rates, the dependence on specific conditions in fusion reactors, and the unresolved nature of the cross-section differences among the various reactions.

Casian
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Hello
I would like to ask here because I couldn't find an answer anywhere on the internet. I recently noticed that two fusion equations have a very good reciprocal cycle, namely the equation: 1H + 2H = 3He, and the equation 3He + 2H = 4He + 1H. I understand that it may have practical limitations, each of the reactions has a different temperature of maximum efficiency and in terms of fuel they would be mostly deuterium which would lead to unwanted mutual fusion of D + D, even so I think it is definitely interesting. Additionally, one such cycle would produce 23.8 MeV which is close to one P + P cycle in the sun. So what is your opinion on it? (I also attach my own graphic for understanding)
fusion reaction 2.png
 
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The first reaction is far less common than D+D at all temperatures with relevant fusion rates (should be something like 6-8 orders of magnitude difference). You basically build a deuterium fusion reactor that has some unreactive protons mixed in. And that's another 1-2 orders of magnitude worse than deuterium-tritium.
 
mfb said:
The first reaction is far less common than D+D at all temperatures with relevant fusion rates (should be something like 6-8 orders of magnitude difference).
The first reaction is also the prevalent fate of D in the world. But then the problem is keeping both the steps the main branch.
mfb said:
You basically build a deuterium fusion reactor that has some unreactive protons mixed in. And that's another 1-2 orders of magnitude worse than deuterium-tritium.
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium_fusion
the reaction
1) d+p=3He+γ
is the prevalent fate of d not only in Sun (where d concentration is kept low by the rapidity of reaction 1) - lifetime quoted as 1 s!), but also in brown dwarfs (that start with primordial d concentration). Since the primordial d/p ratio is just 4,6 magnitudes, it should not be a 6-8 magnitudes difference of cross-section?
Other d reactions include
2) d+d=3He+n
3) d+d=t+p
these require high d concentrations to compete with 1)
4) d+t=α+n
this requires availability of t
5) d+3He=α+p
this of course requires availability of 3He. What kind of 3He concentrations would have it as the major fate of 3He?
Also, I understand that the temperature dependence of thermonuclear reactions depends on Coulomb barrier. Which is proportional to (z1z2/r). All the reactions 1) to 4) have the same z1z2 (1), though r may differ. Reaction 5) has the bigger z1z2 (2).
 
Last edited:
snorkack said:
The first reaction is also the prevalent fate of D in the world.
Yes, in stars that don't have enough deuterium to make D-D fusion relevant, and where the power density only matches a compost heap. Fusion reactors don't have the same conditions.
Since the primordial d/p ratio is just 4,6 magnitudes, it should not be a 6-8 magnitudes difference of cross-section?
The cross section has nothing to do with the concentration.

D-D fusion ends up with a neutron directly or indirectly, which produces another deuterium nucleus in a star (but not in a fusion reactor), so stars are doing p-D fusion with extra steps.
 

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