Can time on elliptical orbit be expressed analytically?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of expressing time on an elliptical orbit analytically. Participants explore various mathematical relationships and expressions related to orbital mechanics, particularly focusing on Kepler's laws and the challenges of deriving certain parameters from others.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether time on an elliptical orbit can be expressed analytically and discusses the relationship between distance from the focus and position angle θ.
  • Another participant suggests investigating Kepler’s second law of constant area speed as a potential avenue for understanding the problem.
  • A different contribution outlines the governing equations for an inverse square central force problem and presents a mathematical framework involving the semi-latus rectum and angular momentum.
  • One participant mentions the Kepler equation relating mean anomaly and eccentric anomaly, noting that while finding mean anomaly from eccentric anomaly is straightforward, the reverse is not solvable.
  • Further elaboration indicates that while θ as a function of mean anomaly is insoluble, mean anomaly as a function of θ is solvable, allowing for the calculation of derivatives but not integrals in certain contexts.
  • Another participant clarifies the original question regarding expressing time since the planet was at pericenter as a function of true anomaly, referencing mean anomaly and its relationship to orbital period.
  • Discussion includes the challenge of determining radial distance from time, known as Kepler's Problem, and the lack of an analytic closed-form solution for Kepler's equation, despite historical attempts to address it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the solvability of certain relationships in orbital mechanics, particularly regarding the expressions for mean anomaly and eccentric anomaly. There is no consensus on whether an analytic solution exists for all aspects of the original question.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of Kepler's equation, which lacks a closed-form solution, and the dependence on various mathematical transformations that may not be reversible. The discussion also highlights the historical context of attempts to solve these problems.

snorkack
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Can time on elliptical orbit be expressed analytically? Which relations are capable of analytic expression?
The distance from focus can be expressed as a function of position angle θ:
r=a(1-e2)/(1+e cos θ)
The length linearly along the ellipse famously cannot be expressed analytically.
The total time spent on ellipse depends on a alone (Kepler 3rd).
If the angular speed at any r of θ were known then the angular speed at any other r would be because r∂θ/∂t=cost for any a and e.
But is there any analytic expression to find r∂θ/∂t given a and e?
Also, is there any way to find
0θ∫∂θ/∂t, or 0t∫∂t/∂θ? These are different questions because many analytic expressions cannot be reversed.
 
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Have you investigated Kepler’s second law of constant area speed for your problem already ?
 
If your inverse square central force problem is governed by <br /> \ddot r - r\dot \theta^2 = -\frac{K}{r^2} with L = r^2\dot\theta constant and \theta(0) = 0 then we have <br /> L^2 = K\ell where the semi-latus rectum \ell of the elliptical orbit is given in terms of the semi-major axis a and eccentricity 0 \leq e &lt; 1 by <br /> \ell = a(1 - e^2). We then have \begin{split}<br /> Lt &amp;= \int_0^t L\,dt \\<br /> &amp;= \int_0^{\theta(t)} r^2 \,d\theta \\<br /> &amp;= \int_0^\theta \frac{\ell^2}{(1 + e\cos \theta)^2}\,d\theta.\end{split}
 
Found the answer to two questions (out of the three).
Kepler equation:
M=E-e*sin E
where M is mean anomaly and E is an intermediate expression called "elliptic anomaly".
E can be expressed through true anomaly and vice versa:
sin E=√(1-e2)*sin θ/(1+e*cos θ)
tan θ/2=√((1+e)/(1-e))*tan E/2
Given E, or θ, finding M is straightforward.
Finding E (and thus θ) given M is an insoluble problem after over four centuries.
 
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snorkack said:
Found the answer to two questions (out of the three).
Given E, or θ, finding M is straightforward.
Finding E (and thus θ) given M is an insoluble problem after over four centuries.
The answer to third question is also easy on some reflection.
While θ as a function of M is insoluble, M as a function of θ is soluble. But since M can be expressed as a function of θ, you can express ∂M/∂θ as function of θ - you can take a derivative of every function but you cannot take an integral of every function. But since ∂θ/∂M is a simple reciprocal of ∂M/∂θ, you can calculate it, as long as you are calculating it as a function of θ rather than M (which is insoluble).
 
So do you have a result?
 
The original question, 'Can time on elliptical orbit be expressed analytically?' is a little vague. I think it means can the time into an orbit, i.e. the time since the planet was at the orbit pericenter (point of closest approach) be expressed as a function of the true anomaly (the angle of the planet as measured from the foci of orbit).

Ref: 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_anomaly
Ref: 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccentric_anomaly

From Ref. 1 the mean anomaly M is an angular expression for the time t into the orbit
M = 360/T *( t - 0), where T is the orbit period which is known.

So, if we knew the relationship between the mean anomaly and true anomaly we'd have the desired function. From Ref. 1
Mean anomaly can be calculated from the eccentricity and the true anomaly f by finding the eccentric anomaly and then using Kepler's equation. This gives, in radians:
M = atan2( ............................

The difficult question is determining the radial distance r from t. This is known as Kepler's Problem. From Ref. 2, r is related to the eccentric anomaly (see the graphical representation for a definition of eccentric anomaly) by
r = a(1 - e*cos(E) ) where a is the semi-major axis of the orbit and e is the orbit eccentricity

So we can determine t from M, and r from E.

The eccentric anomaly E is related to the mean anomaly M by Kepler's Equation
M = E( 1 -e*sin(E)), this requires a non-trivial derivation.

To determine r from t requires solving Kepler's equation for E as a function of M. Both Kepler and Newton gave numerical methods for solving the equation, with Newton's method being far superior.

There is no analytic closed form solution for Kepler's equation, Lagrange derived an infinite series solution in the 1700s, any more mathematicians have addressed the problem over the years, as covered in Solving Kepler's Equation Over Three Centuries by Colwell.
 

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