Can We Discover a Unified Force Between Gravity and the Electroweak Interaction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential unification of fundamental forces in physics, specifically exploring the relationship between gravity and the electroweak interaction. Participants consider various theoretical frameworks, including Grand Unified Theories (GUT) and the implications of different force characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose the idea of a "gravitystrong force" or "gravityelectroweak force," questioning whether these could be the next goals in unifying forces.
  • Others clarify that the "strongelectroweak force" is commonly known as a Grand Unified Theory (GUT), which has been a topic of consideration for decades.
  • There is a suggestion that gravity could be referred to as "gravoinertial," drawing an analogy to electromagnetic terminology.
  • Some participants mention "geometrodynamics" as a term related to gravity, although its usage is not widespread.
  • Questions arise about the existence of orthogonal components in gravitational waves, with some participants suggesting that there may not be any.
  • There is a discussion about the differences between gravity and electromagnetism, with some participants asserting that they are fundamentally different forces governed by different laws.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the possibility of unifying the strong nuclear force with gravity due to their differing characteristics.
  • Others speculate that electromagnetic and gravitational forces might be unified due to their infinite range, while questioning the potential for unification with the weak force.
  • A participant emphasizes the need for a robust theory of quantum gravity before considering a unification of all four forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the potential unification of forces, with no consensus reached. Some agree on the differences between forces, while others explore the possibility of unification in various contexts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of current theories, particularly the lack of a robust quantum gravity theory, which is seen as essential for any unification of forces.

ClamShell
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The electromagnetic force has been observed to
connect with the weak force to produce the
so-called electroweak force.

Is our next goal to observe a gravitystrong force?

Or a gravityelectroweak force?

Or a strongelectroweak force?

Or a srtongelectroweakgravity force?
 
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Your "strongelectroweak force" is more commonly known as a Grand Unified Theory (GUT), and has been under consideration for decades. The other three all require a quantum theory of gravity, which is a tall enough order all by itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Unified_Theory
 
Last edited:
When referring to a charge in motion we say
electromagnetic. Would it not then be analogous
to call gravity in motion, gravoinertial?

Thanks for the heads-up concept of GUT.
 
Let me put it another way. If we refer to
electromagnetic waves...would it be analogous, then,
to say gravoinertial waves instead of gravity waves?

IE, these waves have perpendicular components and
inertia seems to be perpendicular to gravity.
 
Nope,
came up with it outa my own pea brain.
Gravitomagnetic waves are mentioned
in wiki...so maybe somebody might call
them gravitoinertial waves. Anyway,
what would the orthogonal component
be for a gravitational wave? Space, time,
space-time? Or would it be inertia?
 
Or maybe there's no orthogonal component. Have you thought about that?
 
Reminder: PF exists to help students learn the current status of physics as practiced by the scientific community. If "gravoinertial waves" are a new idea, they don't belong here. If they are an existing idea with a new name, we should use the standard name in discussing them.
 
  • #10
Vanadium 50 said:
Reminder: PF exists to help students learn the current status of physics as practiced by the scientific community. If "gravoinertial waves" are a new idea, they don't belong here. If they are an existing idea with a new name, we should use the standard name in discussing them.

Dear Vanadium50,
If you have an opinion or knowledge of what the orthogonal
components of a gravitational wave are or would be, then
please share with us. Just trying to change the subject is
not fair. If, as wiki mentions, they are gravitomagnetic
waves in nature, then be constructive. My opinion is that
there must be orthogonal components for Maxwell's
explanation of EM waves to apply. This is an invitation
to join the discussion.
 
  • #11
Dead Boss said:
Or maybe there's no orthogonal component. Have you thought about that?

Maxwell's explanation of EM waves seems to require orthogonal
components for the wave to advance in space. Do you have any
evidence that a wave can move without an orthogonal component?
 
  • #12
ClamShell said:
Maxwell's explanation of EM waves seems to require orthogonal
components for the wave to advance in space. Do you have any
evidence that a wave can move without an orthogonal component?

But gravity and electromagnetism are different forces, with different laws.
 
  • #13
Dead Boss said:
But gravity and electromagnetism are different forces, with different laws.

Yes, I am being draged, kicking and screaming, to the truth...
and am all the better for it...thanks muchly.
 
  • #14
the distance till which the strong nuclear force is applicable is very small and gravity exerts force on everything...
 
  • #15
Suk-Sci said:
the distance till which the strong nuclear force is applicable is very small and gravity exerts force on everything...

Are you saying that this makes the strong and the gravity, NOT able
to be unified like the EM and the weak, or the opposite, or something
else?
 
  • #16
Yesssss...:-p
 
  • #17
well an interesting thing is that some physicists are trying to include even SPIN as a 5th fundamental force...
 
  • #18
Suk-Sci said:
the distance till which the strong nuclear force is applicable is very small and gravity exerts force on everything...

The strong nuclear force CAN NOT be unified with the gravitational force,
because they are so different?

And, I guess, the EM force is similar to the weak force, then?

I can accept this, please continue...
 
  • #19
i think we may be able to join the electromagnetic and gravitaional force as they both have a range upto infinity...
 
  • #20
Suk-Sci said:
i think we may be able to join the electromagnetic and gravitaional force as they both have a range upto infinity...

EM is already joined with the weak...do you mean it can join with
both the weak and the gravity, or do you mean either the weak or
the gravity?
 
  • #21
i mean weak or gravity
 
  • #22
Suk-Sci said:
i mean weak or gravity



And strongelectroweak (GUT) is a dead end?
 
  • #23
The range of the forces is completely irrelevant. We already have a quantum field theory of the strong and electroweak interactions. It's called the standard model. We do not have a robust theory of quantum gravity, which will be needed before we can even think about unifying all four forces in a "theory of everything".

The Wikipedia articles I posted earlier have some information. Read them, and references therein.
 
  • #24
i like your post daschiach
 

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