Can You Help with These Integer Algebra Homework Questions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around two integer algebra homework questions. The first question asks participants to show that the integer Nn, which consists of n consecutive ones, divides Nm if and only if n divides m. The second question involves proving a property of greatest common divisors when a and c are relatively prime. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and proof strategies.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest starting the proof for the first question by considering the division of Nn by Nm and examining the remainder.
  • Others propose using modular arithmetic to show that if Nn divides Nm, then the remainder must be zero, leading to the conclusion that n must divide m.
  • A participant presents a detailed proof attempt for the first question, using assumptions about remainders and contradictions to argue that Nn|Nm if and only if n|m.
  • Another participant expresses difficulty in simplifying their proof and suggests that a more straightforward approach may be possible through basic division examples.
  • Some participants mention the need for understanding modular arithmetic to fully grasp the proofs being discussed.
  • There are multiple attempts to clarify the proof for the second question, with references to the properties of relatively prime integers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the simplest proof for the first question, with various approaches being discussed. There is also uncertainty regarding the application of modular arithmetic and its implications for the proofs. The second question appears to have some agreement on its validity, but the proof methods remain under discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about their understanding of modular arithmetic, which may limit their ability to engage fully with the proofs. There are also references to specific mathematical steps that remain unresolved or unclear.

Matthollyw00d
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First Question:
Let Nn be the integer whose decimal expansion consists of n consecutive ones. For example, N2=11 and N7=1,111,111. Show that Nn|Nm iff n|m.

Second Question:
If (a,c)=1, prove that (a,bc)=(a,b).

On the second question I can see that it is true because a and c are relatively prime, I realize that ax1+bx2=1, but I'm having difficulty expressing it in a proof satisfactory way. I think I'm just over looking a fact somewhere in my text.

As for the first one, I'm not very certain as to where at all to start, so any and all help here would be appreciated.

Note that I'm not really wanting the full proof of either, more or less just a few helpful pointers or some key facts that are needed that I'm missing; something to get me started so I can get a better attempt at it.

If anything is unclear, I'll be happy to restate it in a more satisfactory format if possible.

Thanks all.
Thanks all.
 
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Hi Matthollyw00d! :smile:

You're making this far too complicated …
Matthollyw00d said:
First Question:
Let Nn be the integer whose decimal expansion consists of n consecutive ones. For example, N2=11 and N7=1,111,111. Show that Nn|Nm iff n|m.

Second Question:
If (a,c)=1, prove that (a,bc)=(a,b).

For the first one, just divide … what is the remainder?

For the second, write a = np, b = nq, bc = nqc … :wink:
 
Would this be sufficient for the first one:

Assume Nn|Nm, then (t)Nn=Nm, t≥1. For all m,n≥1, there exists q,r such that m=qn + r, 0≤r<n.
Next assume m does not divide n, therefore 1≤r<n.
Thus Nm=Nqn+r=10r(s)Nn+Nr
Then, (t)Nn=Nqn+r=10r(s)Nn+Nr
Thus, Nr=Nn(t-s10r)=Nn(d), d≥1, which implies r≥n, which contradicts our hypothesis of r<n.
Thus Nn|Nm iff n|m.
 
Matthollyw00d said:
Would this be sufficient for the first one:

Assume Nn|Nm, then (t)Nn=Nm, t≥1. For all m,n≥1, there exists q,r such that m=qn + r, 0≤r<n.
Next assume m does not divide n, therefore 1≤r<n.
Thus Nm=Nqn+r=10r(s)Nn+Nr
Then, (t)Nn=Nqn+r=10r(s)Nn+Nr
Thus, Nr=Nn(t-s10r)=Nn(d), d≥1, which implies r≥n, which contradicts our hypothesis of r<n.
Thus Nn|Nm iff n|m.
If you work out a couple of divisions as a grade school student is taught a simpler proof should be apparent. First try [tex]/N_6/N_2[/tex] to get 010101. Then Try [tex]N_8/N_4[/tex] to get 00010001. Now what would the result of [tex]N_20/N_5[/tex] be?
 
ramsey2879 said:
If you work out a couple of divisions as a grade school student is taught a simpler proof should be apparent. First try [tex]/N_6/N_2[/tex] to get 010101. Then Try [tex]N_8/N_4[/tex] to get 00010001. Now what would the result of [tex]N_2_0/N_5[/tex] be?
00001000010000100001
But I'm not seeing a proof that is simpler than what I did unfortunately. =/
 
Matthollyw00d said:
00001000010000100001
But I'm not seeing a proof that is simpler than what I did unfortunately. =/
Assume 0 < r < n
[tex]m = tn + r[/tex]
[tex]N_{m} = N_{m} - (10^{(t-1)*n + r})*N_{n} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]N_{m} = N_{m-n} \mod N_{n}[/tex]
[tex]N_{m} = N_{m-n} - (10^{t-2}*n + r})*N_{n} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]0 = N_{m-2n} \mod N_{n}[/tex]
...
[tex]0 = N_{m - tn} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]0 = N_{r} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]r = 0[/tex]
 
Last edited:
That would be why I didn't see it, I've yet to learn Modular Arithmetic.
 
ramsey2879 said:
Assume 0 < r < n
[tex]m = tn + r[/tex]
[tex]N_{m} = N_{m} - (10^{(t-1)*n + r})*N_{n} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]N_{m} = N_{m-n} \mod N_{n}[/tex]
[tex]N_{m} = N_{m-n} - (10^{t-2}*n + r})*N_{n} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]0 = N_{m-2n} \mod N_{n}[/tex]
...
[tex]0 = N_{m - tn} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]0 = N_{r} \mod N_n[/tex]
[tex]r = 0[/tex]

redoing this
[tex]m = tn + r[/tex]
If [tex]N_{n}|N_{m}[/tex] then [tex]N_{n}[/tex] also divides:
[tex]N_{m} - (10^{(t-1)*n + r})*N_{n}[/tex] which has the same remainder i.e., zero But that is [tex]N_{m-n}[/tex] since you just removed the first n [tex]1[/tex]'s. This is simply going through the longhand division process as the divisor multiplied by [tex]10[/tex] to the appropiiate power removes the n most righthand [tex]1[/tex]'s. When doing longhand division in this manner you are not changing the ultimate remainder so we can say that the new term [tex]N_{m-n} = N_{m} \mod N_n[/tex] (i.e. they have the same remainder if divided by [tex]N_n[/tex]).
Likewise we continue the longhand division process by removing the next n most righthand [tex]1[/tex]'s and so on until we removed t*n [tex]1[/tex]'s. The resulting number comprises r [tex]1[/tex]'s and has the same remainder as the original number. So we say [tex]N_{m} = N_{r} \mod N_n[/tex] iff [tex]m = r \mod n[/tex]. Since n|m, r = zero is the only possible r less than n.
 

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