I Car, gas and total energy calculation

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the principle of conservation of energy in relation to a car's motion and fuel consumption. Participants explore the total energy equation, including kinetic energy and the energy from gasoline and exhaust. Questions arise about how to algebraically represent the energy from gas and exhaust in the total energy calculation, with some suggesting that the chemical potential energy of exhaust is negligible. The conversation also touches on the energy required to accelerate air and the role of exhaust gases in energy calculations. Ultimately, it is noted that a car moving at constant speed on flat ground does not conserve energy, as all energy is lost to various forms of drag and inefficiencies.
jeanmarc69
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hi,

What I understood about the principle of conservation of energy: Et = Ep + Ec = constant.
For example: Et = 1/2mv^2 + mgh (h = height).

Consider a car moving at speed v.

For example: Et = 1/2mv^2 + E(gas + exhausts). Indeed, I include the exhausts, otherwise with the drop in the quantity of gas necessary to drive the car, there is an imbalance, therefore no conservation.

My question: What would be the algebra for E(gas + exhaust) in the context of Et?

Thank you for your answers.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Wow, it's hard for me to decode your post. What are ##E_p## and ##E_c##? What are you trying to calculate? Are you trying to add the chemical potential energy of gasoline into a total energy calculation for a car? If so, the chemical potential energy of the exhaust can be taken as zero. If you have a turbofan driving the car, then I suppose you could include the exit momentum of the exhaust in the energy equations, but otherwise it makes little sense to worry about the exhaust gasses from a car, IMO.
 
jeanmarc69 said:
My question: What would be the algebra for E(gas + exhaust) in the context of Et?
The air, taken in through the air filter of a car, must be first accelerated to the speed of the car. The energy required would normally appear as part of the aerodynamic drag of the vehicle. The fuel in the tank of the car would appear to be part of the mass of the vehicle.

The nitrogen in the air would be heated before being released as exhaust. The oxygen would be combusted with fuel, to be exhausted as hot H2O and CO2.

The exhaust gasses of piston-engined aircraft were directed backwards to gain a few HP of forward thrust. That 'jet' effect would also be true for cars, but is not as important as it once was in military aircraft.
 
Your math makes little sense to me too, but please note a car moving at constant speed on flat ground is not a situation where energy is conserved: 100% of it is lost.
 
Hello everyone, Consider the problem in which a car is told to travel at 30 km/h for L kilometers and then at 60 km/h for another L kilometers. Next, you are asked to determine the average speed. My question is: although we know that the average speed in this case is the harmonic mean of the two speeds, is it also possible to state that the average speed over this 2L-kilometer stretch can be obtained as a weighted average of the two speeds? Best regards, DaTario
I know that mass does not affect the acceleration in a simple pendulum undergoing SHM, but how does the mass on the spring that makes up the elastic pendulum affect its acceleration? Certainly, there must be a change due to the displacement from equilibrium caused by each differing mass? I am talking about finding the acceleration at a specific time on each trial with different masses and comparing them. How would they compare and why?
This has been discussed many times on PF, and will likely come up again, so the video might come handy. Previous threads: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-a-treadmill-incline-just-a-marketing-gimmick.937725/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/work-done-running-on-an-inclined-treadmill.927825/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/how-do-we-calculate-the-energy-we-used-to-do-something.1052162/
Back
Top