Conservation of energy and change in energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of energy, particularly in the context of a falling ball. Participants explore the relationship between potential energy, kinetic energy, and the implications of energy transformation during the ball's descent and upon impact with the ground.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how energy can be considered constant when a ball falls from a height, suggesting that the potential energy decreases and implies energy is destroyed when the ball comes to rest.
  • Another participant reiterates the initial claim about energy change, emphasizing that the decrease in potential energy is balanced by an increase in kinetic energy during the fall.
  • A different participant raises a concern about the state of the ball at the bottom position, questioning where the energy has gone when both potential and kinetic energy appear to be zero.
  • One participant points out that a force is required to stop the ball, referencing the behavior of objects upon impact, such as a glass breaking when dropped.
  • Another participant explains that inelastic collisions convert kinetic energy into thermal energy and sound, while elastic collisions allow for some kinetic energy to be retained, noting that real-world collisions are never perfectly elastic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of energy conservation, with some asserting that energy is transformed rather than destroyed, while others question the fate of energy when the ball comes to rest.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not resolve the mathematical implications of energy transformations or the definitions of elastic and inelastic collisions, leaving these aspects open for further discussion.

physio
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Suppose i have a ball of mass m and if i left the ball at a particular height 'h', then i have done some work on it or by the law of conservation of energy i have transferred some energy to the ball. Now suppose i release the ball isn't the energy that i have transferred changing because it moves with a particular acceleration and hence a changing velocity and also the potential energy keeps on decreasing as the height decreases, then doesn't the energy necessarily change?

So how is energy constant. The ball falls down and is then at rest and hence has no potential energy or kinetic energy (mgh=0; 1/2mv^2=0), hence the potential energy given to the ball mgh now becomes 0 (mgh-->0). Thus energy has been destroyed isn't it??
 
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physio said:
Suppose i have a ball of mass m and if i left the ball at a particular height 'h', then i have done some work on it or by the law of conservation of energy i have transferred some energy to the ball. Now suppose i release the ball isn't the energy that i have transferred changing because it moves with a particular acceleration and hence a changing velocity and also the potential energy keeps on decreasing as the height decreases, then doesn't the energy necessarily change?

So how is energy constant. The ball falls down and is then at rest and hence has no potential energy or kinetic energy (mgh=0; 1/2mv^2=0), hence the potential energy given to the ball mgh now becomes 0 (mgh-->0). Thus energy has been destroyed isn't it??

The velocity increases thus decrease in potential energy is balanced by increase in kinetic energy
 
But what about the bottom most position? The velocity is zero and also the height is zero (object at rest). Where did the mgh + 1/2mv^2 go?
 
There must be a force to "brake" the object to a halt. Have you seen an object just stop when it reaches the ground. Try dropping a glass.
 
physio said:
So how is energy constant. The ball falls down and is then at rest and hence has no potential energy or kinetic energy (mgh=0; 1/2mv^2=0), hence the potential energy given to the ball mgh now becomes 0 (mgh-->0). Thus energy has been destroyed isn't it??

If the ball is made of putty or something like that, it smushes to a stop when it hits the ground. The collision with the ground is completely inelastic, and the kinetic energy of the ball is converted to thermal energy ("heat") and a bit of sound energy.

If the ball and the ground are both, say, steel, the collision is elastic and the ball bounces back up with almost as much KE just after the bounce as it had just before the bounce. In practice no collision is completely elastic, so you get a little bit of energy loss to "heat".
 
Thanks...^
 

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