Car turning with external force help from spoiler

[xxChrisxx]

this is indeed the essence of his idea. Movable rudders.

As you can't gaurantee the airflow, all a movable rudder will do is make it seem like you are driving in a constantly changing cross wind.

Even in theory, you are still limited by the amount of lateral grip the tyres can withstand.It's an interesting concept though.

 

[DaveC426913]

As you can't gaurantee the airflow, all a movable rudder will do is make it seem like you are driving in a constantly changing cross wind.

His idea is that the rudders would actively engage when turning.

Even in theory, you are still limited by the amount of lateral grip the tyres can withstand.

The whole point of what he's proposing is to use aerodynamics to lessen the dependence on lateral grip. If the car is assisted through its turn, there is less strain on the tires, therefore less likely to slip. (Taking the principle to its extreme: If one used the Batmobile/Mythbusters "grapple-gun technique" to turn corners, then the dependence on lateral grip of tires is reduced to zero - just substitute still air for telephone pole. )

I am not condoning the idea; I don't think it will work either. I think it will render the vehicle uncontrollable. But I am not an expert in this field. I just want to make sure he gets the best answers possible based on correct information.

 

[mender]

I think it will render the vehicle uncontrollable.

How would it do that?

 

[DaveC426913]

How would it do that?

Powerful transverse forces on the vehicle right in the middle of a turn?

 

[mender]

Powerful transverse forces on the vehicle right in the middle of a turn?

I'm not sure how you're visualizing this, but I can tell you that powerful transverse forces are always acting on the car during cornering, ones that are not always balanced or predictable, and the driver is expected to compensate accordingly.

I'm not seeing a situation that renders the vehicle uncontrollable, so if you have one in mind I'd be interested in reading about it.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm not sure how you're visualizing this, but I can tell you that powerful transverse forces are always acting on the car during cornering, ones that are not always balanced or predictable, and the driver is expected to compensate accordingly.

I'm not seeing a situation that renders the vehicle uncontrollable, so if you have one in mind I'd be interested in reading about it.

Essentially, a VERY powerful gale force gust of wind is going to hit the car crosswise, the moment it goes into a turn, and then stop the moment it leaves the run.

 

[mark77]

As an example of that extreme, a go-kart has no suspension and therefore no roll but still has load transfer as dictated by the C of G and track width; by your way of thinking it shouldn't, right?

Hey guys, first off, thanks for all your input. In terms of this quote above, can't you cancel load transfer by adding a torque opposing the torque that is causing it (normal force and lateral friction force). Correct me if I am wrong but the load transfer happens because of a torque from mostly firction (some normal force as well) on all four tires as going arround a turn, they would be in similar directions thus producing a torque that is thus "countered" by increasing load on one side and decresaing the one on another. Again correct me if I am wrong I am just throwing ideas around. Thanks

 

[HowlerMonkey]

It would require a wing of very large area.

There is much more to reap from negating lift/adding downforce than by using an airfoil to affect a car on the axis we are speaking of.

 

[Ranger Mike]

mark77
have you taken the time to READ the posts I noted?

 

[mender]

Hey guys, first off, thanks for all your input. In terms of this quote above, can't you cancel load transfer by adding a torque opposing the torque that is causing it (normal force and lateral friction force).

No, you can't "cancel" load transfer because you can't cancel inertia. It's quite important (to us anyway) that you understand this fact; can you at least address this so we know where you're at before we move on?

If you are meaning "compensate for the load transfer" (and it certainly sounds like that's what you're proposing), that is another thing entirely, but please, let's make sure you have the first part right, okay?