Carboxylation of sodium phenolate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around predicting the products and reaction mechanism of sodium phenolate reacting with carbon dioxide followed by acid. It includes considerations of electrophilic aromatic substitution and regioselectivity in the context of organic chemistry.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the carbon atom in CO2 has a positive partial charge, leading to an electrophilic aromatic substitution mechanism with sodium phenolate.
  • Another participant points out that sodium phenolate was incorrectly referred to as sodium benzoate and questions the directive effects of the -ONa group.
  • One participant acknowledges the mistake regarding the compound name and discusses the orto/para-directive nature of the -ONa group, arguing it should behave similarly to the hydroxy group.
  • There is a suggestion to amend the thread title to reflect the correct compound name.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mechanism involving electrophilic aromatic substitution, but there is disagreement regarding the correct nomenclature and the directive effects of the -ONa group.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the assumptions made about the electronic effects of the -ONa group compared to the hydroxy group, as well as the implications of the compound's correct naming on the discussion.

espen180
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Homework Statement



Predict the products and reaction mechanism when sodium phenolate reacts with carbon doixide, then acid.

Homework Equations



Sodium phenolate: Ph-ONa
Carbon Dioxide: O=C=O

The Attempt at a Solution



The carbon atom in CO2 has a positive partial charge, so I expect an electrophilic aromatic substitution mechanism. The hydrogen which is released will protonate one of the oxygen atoms and make a carboxy group. The result is a carboxylation of the original compound. The -ONa group is electron withdrawing, so only the orto and para positions are susceptible. Then, the acid will remove the sodium and protonate the oxygen to form an alcohol group.

The products will then be orto-hydroxybenzoic acid, or 2-hydroxybenzoic acid, and para-hydroxybenzoic acid, or 4-hydroxybenzoic acid. I expect roughly 66% orto and 33% para among the products.
 
Last edited:
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espen180 said:

Homework Statement



Predict the products and reaction mechanism when sodium benzoate reacts with carbon doixide, then acid.

Homework Equations



Sodium benzoate: Ph-ONa
Carbon Dioxide: O=C=O

The Attempt at a Solution



The carbon atom in CO2 has a positive partial charge, so I expect an electrophilic aromatic substitution mechanism. The hydrogen which is released will protonate one of the oxygen atoms and make a carboxy group. The result is a carboxylation of the original compound. The -ONa group is electron withdrawing, so only the orto and para positions are susceptible. Then, the acid will remove the sodium and protonate the oxygen to form an alcohol group.

The products will then be orto-hydroxybenzoic acid, or 2-hydroxybenzoic acid, and para-hydroxybenzoic acid, or 4-hydroxybenzoic acid. I expect roughly 66% orto and 33% para among the products.


2 things spring to mind, 1) PhONa is not sodium benzoate. 2) are you sure about your directive effects?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
1) A mistake on my part. The problem gave the structure, not the name. It should be sodium phenolate. I'll correct the opening post.

2) About the regiochemistry, my thinking is that since the hydroxy group is orto/para-directive, then a -ONa group should be so too, even more so, since the electronegativity of Na is less than that of H, meaning more electron density near the oxygen.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
espen180 said:
1) A mistake on my part. The problem gave the structure, not the name. It should be sodium phenolate. I'll correct the opening post.

2) About the regiochemistry, my thinking is that since the hydroxy group is orto/para-directive, then a -ONa group should be so too, even more so, since the electronegativity of Na is less than that of H, meaning more electron density near the oxygen.

Fair enough. My point two was based on the structure being benzoate, rather than phenolate. You may also want to, if you still can, amend the title of the thread as well :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sjb-2812 said:
You may also want to, if you still can, amend the title of the thread as well :)

Espen can't :wink:
 

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