Career Change from Religion to Physics

[lastband]

I currently have education in religion, and at 46 years old, I have the desire to go back to school and study astronomy/physics etc.. i would be starting all over and would take til I am 55 if i go post doctorate. My interest in astronomy started when i was 12. if i had attended a better school, my science interest may have been reinforced better.

instead i was at religious school that did not focus on such things. my eighth grade paper on cosmology received an A+ primarily i believe because my science teacher had no idea what i was talking about. (my science teacher's primary education was not in science, my school forced teachers to work outside their comfort zone to save money). anyway, i was to blame also, i could have sought out groups outside my school for further discussion etc. but i didn't.

I succumbed to the pressures of my private school and studied religion instead. I do value my education, but has never been practical, and never really made a career with it. So now, late in life, I would like to finally pursue my interest in science. Any advice etc would be greatly appreciated, thank you and God bless

 

[symbolipoint]

Long road, starting with the necessary Mathematics: Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Trigonometry, maybe a "Pre-Calculus" course, and then Calculus-and-Analytic-Geometry 1,2,3; and at least one more typical course involving differential equations and brief introduction to linear algebra. Along the way, you could or would also study sciences, including Physics, Chemistry, Biology; and you might be working toward a bachelor's degree in Physics or something. Many of the science courses and nearly all of the Mathematics courses will be difficult. Consider maybe 6 years from start to finish for bachelor's degree. In case you become full time student for all of it, maybe 4 or 5 years for bachelor's degree. Some chance that you may have transferrable credit courses of general education requirements already satisfied from your degree in Religeon.

 

[russ_watters]

So now, late in life, I would like to finally pursue my interest in science. Any advice etc would be greatly appreciated, thank you and God bless

Are you intending to go to school part time while working? What do you want to do with it once you have it?

 

[lastband]

Thank you both for replying. I have been admitted to a local college and need to meet with an advisor soon. hopefully, i will start as a sophomore into their physics program. working full time and going back to school will not be easy. and yes, i may have to settle for only undergrad in physics.

I don't have any particular aspirations career wise, no exact position i am after. Research, data mining, coding. I have done some research, and there seems to be a need for people to review data that has been collected by other entities like observatories, satellites etc. I am not sure if any these would be an option with only an undergrad.

I want to learn more about the things i read, see on documentaries etc, I m always questioning, how do they know that? how do we know what the chemical composition of objects are so far away? how can we know the behaviour of these same objects?

there seems to be such an overload of new data being discovered all the time, creating some answers, more questions, all intriguing and I want to know more.

 

[pi-r8]

I'll be the bad guy and suggest that you shouldn't do this. It sounds like you have naive, romanticized ideas of what physics research is like (there's a lot of aimless grinding and very few, if any, eureka moments), and maybe too-high an opinion of your own abilities (getting a good grade on a paper as a kid doesn't really mean much). Why not go to school for a more practical choice like engineering or programming? You'll still take a couple of physics classes, and a lot of the same math requirements. Then you can have a much higher chance of a real career change, and have spare time to read popular physics stuff if that's what your in to.

 

[Choppy]

Something else to keep in mind is that particularly with astronomy, you don't need to be a professional to enjoy doing it. There are a lot of amateur astronomers out there and some even make very valuable contributions to the field. If you're going to study it, study it because you want to learn about it, but don't count on it as an avenue for another career in that direction. Even most PhDs eventually end up leaving the field professionally.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I have some ideas a blog links that may be helpful, but they may violate the PF rules, because they are faith-based. So I invite you to discuss them with me via private message if you are interested. I believe that a strong faith-based background can be a considerable asset in physics; it sure has been for me.

 

[jtbell]

i may have to settle for only undergrad in physics.

Research, data mining, coding. I have done some research, and there seems to be a need for people to review data that has been collected by other entities like observatories, satellites etc. I am not sure if any these would be an option with only an undergrad.

University research groups have graduate students to do this sort of thing. It's how they "earn" financial support via research assistantships, in addition to being part of their own PhD thesis research.

With only an undergraduate physics or astronomy degree, with a strong computer-science component and good analysis and coding skills, I think you'd be much more likely to get some kind of programming job in private industry. But you'd be competing against people fresh out of school in their early 20s, many of whom have been "breathing code" since high school. If you're really into coding, you might be able to make that work, at least for a while. However, on a financial forum that I follow, I regularly see stories from programmers and other tech types in their 50s who have either been laid off or strongly "encouraged" to retire early.

Also, I don't know what you'd be likely to make in such jobs compares with your current salary. Maybe it would be higher, but at least at the expense of tuition and fees for your degree, assuming you're able to keep your current job while doing it.

Looking further down the line, most people your age are either increasing their retirement savings (401k, 403b, IRA or other), starting to think about it, or should be starting to think about it. It's easy to say you'll keep on working until your 70s, but many aren't able to do that, in any career.

 

[jrmichler]

On the positive side, you would graduate with a brand new state of the art degree. You would be looking for an entry level job, but with the benefit of maturity. I have known a number of people who made midlife career changes. All of them were glad they made the change.

Just manage your finances so that you can retire early if you are forced to.

 

[Tom.G]

A different take.

I want to learn more about the things i read, see on documentaries etc, I m always questioning, how do they know that? how do we know what the chemical composition of objects are so far away? how can we know the behaviour of these same objects?

Well, bluntly, you "Don't need no stinkin' degree for that!"

Go ahead, get started in the earlier courses needed for a degree and also also try some of the courses that particularly interest you, Astronomy maybe. I would suggest getting through at least the first two Math courses and Introductory Physics and maybe Astronomy, before dropping and going exclusively online. There are an awful lot of both free and $$$ online courses for just about anything you can imagine, even some free ones from major universities like MIT. For instance the Richard Feynman lectures on Physics are online for free reading (http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/) or videos can be purchased on DVD from some sources, and at least some of his videos are freely available online (youtu.be/j3mhkYbznBk)
.

Enjoy!
Tom

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

I currently have education in religion, and at 46 years old, I have the desire to go back to school and study astronomy/physics etc.. i would be starting all over and would take til I am 55 if i go post doctorate. My interest in astronomy started when i was 12. if i had attended a better school, my science interest may have been reinforced better.

instead i was at religious school that did not focus on such things. my eighth grade paper on cosmology received an A+ primarily i believe because my science teacher had no idea what i was talking about. (my science teacher's primary education was not in science, my school forced teachers to work outside their comfort zone to save money). anyway, i was to blame also, i could have sought out groups outside my school for further discussion etc. but i didn't.

I succumbed to the pressures of my private school and studied religion instead. I do value my education, but has never been practical, and never really made a career with it. So now, late in life, I would like to finally pursue my interest in science. Any advice etc would be greatly appreciated, thank you and God bless

I have not visited this site for a long time. But I was thinking about religion vs science and vaguely remembered posting something here related to this topic, so I searched and came up with your post.

This question raises some important issues, and it interests me, so I am temporarily breaking my rule about never participating in social media again. I hope my comments are useful to at least one reader who is considering a career choice.

I hope no one minds a few personal remarks. I was not raised in any particular religion. My heritage is Protestant going back to the Reformation, but most of my family members were not interested in organized religion.

I was always interested in science and technology. I was attracted in particular to physics, and that was my major at university. However, as a result of some study, but more significantly based on dramatic personal experiences, I had also been baptized as a young adult in the Roman Catholic Church. Without going into detail, I had to deal, as many scientific types do, with the relationship between religion and science. More on that later on.

I was virtually a physics fanatic as an undergraduate, I did rather well in my classes, and I planned to continue to my PhD in that topic. I was taking graduate courses in advanced quantum theory in my senior year. I thought physics was by far the most important field of study. I tended to put any interest in religion in the background.

However, I began to use computers rather heavily, and learned artificial intelligence programming on my own. My first interest was neural networks, a topic which at that time was not as well known by the general public as it is today. Later I delved into logic programming using Lisp and Prolog.

Once I realized the potential of AI, my career choice changed. To make a long story short, eventually I told my academic adviser, who was a physicist, that I would finish my physics degree, which I did, but then go to graduate school in computer engineering and get at least a masters degree, which I also did. My goal was to develop computer systems for AI. I could see that much of the work of scientists and engineers could be accomplished using AI. For example, one of the researchers who worked at the Princeton fusion reactor laboratory said that most of the work done for the lab by theoretical physicists could be handled by an expert system, which is a type of AI program. Note that he did say "most," not "all."

I also saw AI in terms of what we now call The Singularity, which frankly has elements of science fiction and fantasy, and has become perhaps a substitute for religion among many who are not religious believers. I still find this topic fascinating, while being skeptical about its claims to be the true path to immortality.

I don't know you, and besides I don't feel qualified to give personal career advice to anyone. But in general I think people might find it useful to consider the following. Being interested in physics is one thing. But actually going to university, studying physics, and getting even an undergraduate degree in physics or in any other STEM subject is not easy. In fact it's difficult. I think it's much harder if you don't start young on a STEM track.

People should place this whole question of what to study in terms of their life in general, and think in terms of a cost vs benefit analysis. By cost I refer both to money and to time. One should think of specific long term goals and use backward planning to figure out how to achieve those goals, as opposed to getting a degree in the hope that somehow it may lead to a better life.

I think the Germans have a more practical approach to education than we do in the USA, where so many people still believe that having at least a four-year degree is some kind of key to a good life. The truth is otherwise. There are many people in the USA who have more than one academic degree and are struggling just to make ends meet. Some work in Silicon Valley but are living out of their cars because they can't afford housing. On the other hand, just look at certain technology billionaires, or look at other intelligent and also wealthy people. Do you think they regret not spending years getting a PhD, spending more years in poverty as post-Docs, and then struggling in the competition to get at least an associate professor job? Some very wealthy people have only a high school degree. They can still be involved in STEM areas, but in the role of donations or investments rather than engaging in the actual technical work.

But perhaps someone is very interested in science and technology and wants to learn more and perhaps make a living in some STEM area. This is where computers come in. You are certainly not too old to learn about computers. Also the information you need to get started in programming is freely available online.

I read an article about a much older Japanese lady who taught herself programming and has made a popular smart phone app. This is something that many people enjoy, and it can sometimes be quite lucrative. Why not think along these lines? You can always read physics books meant for a general audience. You could also follow astronomy, which you mentioned, as a hobby, without getting any degree.

Regarding your religious education and background, and its relation to physics and other sciences, please consider the following. The scientific method is appropriate for understanding how nature operates, at least up to a point. However, ultimately it is based on experience, meaning observation and experiment. I would always defend the scientific method. However, due to my own undeniable personal experiences, I will also defend my religion.

I did not always think this way. But my attitude towards both science and religion is based on more knowledge and personal experience than I used to have. This is true particularly after recent events in my life. This is a very complex issue and this is the wrong forum to get into details.

To sum up, I would say it's better to engage in long range planning, in terms of specific goals and how to achieve them, when considering going to university. But put everything in the context of having a happy life. This is true at any age. Perhaps you can achieve happiness without ever setting foot on a university campus. Also, be realistic about both your own needs and desires, as well as your academic potential. How about taking an aptitude test, in order to get an objective assessment of your abilities? Maybe take a single class at a community college and see how that goes, before thinking in terms of a four-year university degree program. Perform a cost-benefit analysis in terms of time and money invested.

 

[pinball1970]

I have not visited this site for a long time. But I was thinking about religion vs science and vaguely remembered posting something here related to this topic, so I searched and came up with your post.

This question raises some important issues, and it interests me, so I am temporarily breaking my rule about never participating in social media again. I hope my comments are useful to at least one reader who is considering a career choice.

I hope no one minds a few personal remarks. I was not raised in any particular religion. My heritage is Protestant going back to the Reformation, but most of my family members were not interested in organized religion.

I was always interested in science and technology. I was attracted in particular to physics, and that was my major at university. However, as a result of some study, but more significantly based on dramatic personal experiences, I had also been baptized as a young adult in the Roman Catholic Church. Without going into detail, I had to deal, as many scientific types do, with the relationship between religion and science. More on that later on.

I was virtually a physics fanatic as an undergraduate, I did rather well in my classes, and I planned to continue to my PhD in that topic. I was taking graduate courses in advanced quantum theory in my senior year. I thought physics was by far the most important field of study. I tended to put any interest in religion in the background.

However, I began to use computers rather heavily, and learned artificial intelligence programming on my own. My first interest was neural networks, a topic which at that time was not as well known by the general public as it is today. Later I delved into logic programming using Lisp and Prolog.

Once I realized the potential of AI, my career choice changed. To make a long story short, eventually I told my academic adviser, who was a physicist, that I would finish my physics degree, which I did, but then go to graduate school in computer engineering and get at least a masters degree, which I also did. My goal was to develop computer systems for AI. I could see that much of the work of scientists and engineers could be accomplished using AI. For example, one of the researchers who worked at the Princeton fusion reactor laboratory said that most of the work done for the lab by theoretical physicists could be handled by an expert system, which is a type of AI program. Note that he did say "most," not "all."

I also saw AI in terms of what we now call The Singularity, which frankly has elements of science fiction and fantasy, and has become perhaps a substitute for religion among many who are not religious believers. I still find this topic fascinating, while being skeptical about its claims to be the true path to immortality.

I don't know you, and besides I don't feel qualified to give personal career advice to anyone. But in general I think people might find it useful to consider the following. Being interested in physics is one thing. But actually going to university, studying physics, and getting even an undergraduate degree in physics or in any other STEM subject is not easy. In fact it's difficult. I think it's much harder if you don't start young on a STEM track.

People should place this whole question of what to study in terms of their life in general, and think in terms of a cost vs benefit analysis. By cost I refer both to money and to time. One should think of specific long term goals and use backward planning to figure out how to achieve those goals, as opposed to getting a degree in the hope that somehow it may lead to a better life.

I think the Germans have a more practical approach to education than we do in the USA, where so many people still believe that having at least a four-year degree is some kind of key to a good life. The truth is otherwise. There are many people in the USA who have more than one academic degree and are struggling just to make ends meet. Some work in Silicon Valley but are living out of their cars because they can't afford housing. On the other hand, just look at certain technology billionaires, or look at other intelligent and also wealthy people. Do you think they regret not spending years getting a PhD, spending more years in poverty as post-Docs, and then struggling in the competition to get at least an associate professor job? Some very wealthy people have only a high school degree. They can still be involved in STEM areas, but in the role of donations or investments rather than engaging in the actual technical work.

But perhaps someone is very interested in science and technology and wants to learn more and perhaps make a living in some STEM area. This is where computers come in. You are certainly not too old to learn about computers. Also the information you need to get started in programming is freely available online.

I read an article about a much older Japanese lady who taught herself programming and has made a popular smart phone app. This is something that many people enjoy, and it can sometimes be quite lucrative. Why not think along these lines? You can always read physics books meant for a general audience. You could also follow astronomy, which you mentioned, as a hobby, without getting any degree.

Regarding your religious education and background, and its relation to physics and other sciences, please consider the following. The scientific method is appropriate for understanding how nature operates, at least up to a point. However, ultimately it is based on experience, meaning observation and experiment. I would always defend the scientific method. However, due to my own undeniable personal experiences, I will also defend my religion.

I did not always think this way. But my attitude towards both science and religion is based on more knowledge and personal experience than I used to have. This is true particularly after recent events in my life. This is a very complex issue and this is the wrong forum to get into details.

To sum up, I would say it's better to engage in long range planning, in terms of specific goals and how to achieve them, when considering going to university. But put everything in the context of having a happy life. This is true at any age. Perhaps you can achieve happiness without ever setting foot on a university campus. Also, be realistic about both your own needs and desires, as well as your academic potential. How about taking an aptitude test, in order to get an objective assessment of your abilities? Maybe take a single class at a community college and see how that goes, before thinking in terms of a four-year university degree program. Perform a cost-benefit analysis in terms of time and money invested.

It 18 months since his post I wonder what he ended up doing? How it went?
At first glance you could say Science and religion do not sit well but the big questions are the same for both subjects.
I try not to resent my religious education and upbringing I just wish less time would have been wasted.
Anyway on topic one thing I have noticed about this sort of poster is they seem to aim very high.
I am learning lots about science with little or no cost or formal classes.
Going back to uni at 40 or 50 is big step, especially if you are working as well.
A passion for a subject can be explored in the library, a textbook with worked questions. On line journals and sites like pf where you can ask about areas that are too tough in the books.
As a small aside, why did you stop posting?
When someone stops posting I don't notice till I see an older thread then think, 'where did they go?.'

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

It 18 months since his post I wonder what he ended up doing? How it went?
At first glance you could say Science and religion do not sit well but the big questions are the same for both subjects.
I try not to resent my religious education and upbringing I just wish less time would have been wasted.
Anyway on topic one thing I have noticed about this sort of poster is they seem to aim very high.
I am learning lots about science with little or no cost or formal classes.
Going back to uni at 40 or 50 is big step, especially if you are working as well.
A passion for a subject can be explored in the library, a textbook with worked questions. On line journals and sites like pf where you can ask about areas that are too tough in the books.
As a small aside, why did you stop posting?
When someone stops posting I don't notice till I see an older thread then think, 'where did they go?.'

Thanks for asking. I stopped posting for several reasons. The main one was that I was often posting late at night, when I was tired, or feeling ill, or in a bad mood, and my posts would sometimes be poor quality. As a result, I posted some rubbish and made some statements that I didn't even agree with then, much less now. Eventually, I canceled all my social media accounts except this one.

Most of these other online forums were intrinsically of poor quality and not good places to have intelligent discussions, so it was no loss. But here on PF, which generally is a high quality forum, I was amazed at some of the rubbish I had posted myself. So I decided to stop until I was in a better frame of mind.

Also, I wanted to spend as much time as possible on my work, and I found posting on social media to be a way of distracting myself from that work instead of getting it done.

As long as I am replying, I remembered another important factor when it comes to higher education in the USA: student loans! This is a nightmare for many people who are saddled with this debt and can't get out of it. Remember, even bankruptcy does not abolish your student load debt. I thank God that with all the mistakes I made, at least I never took on more student loans than I could pay off, something that happened within my first year after leaving university.

Also, for those wanting to learn some physics without spending money, I recommend this website. How to be a Good Theoretical Physicist by Nobel Laureate 't Hooft. Also look for good physics lectures on Youtube.

 

[pinball1970]

Thanks for asking. I stopped posting for several reasons. The main one was that I was often posting late at night, when I was tired, or feeling ill, or in a bad mood, and my posts would sometimes be poor quality. As a result, I posted some rubbish and made some statements that I didn't even agree with then, much less now. Eventually, I canceled all my social media accounts except this one.

Most of these other online forums were intrinsically of poor quality and not good places to have intelligent discussions, so it was no loss. But here on PF, which generally is a high quality forum, I was amazed at some of the rubbish I had posted myself. So I decided to stop until I was in a better frame of mind.

Also, I wanted to spend as much time as possible on my work, and I found posting on social media to be a way of distracting myself from that work instead of getting it done.

As long as I am replying, I remembered another important factor when it comes to higher education in the USA: student loans! This is a nightmare for many people who are saddled with this debt and can't get out of it. Remember, even bankruptcy does not abolish your student load debt. I thank God that with all the mistakes I made, at least I never took on more student loans than I could pay off, something that happened within my first year after leaving university.

Also, for those wanting to learn some physics without spending money, I recommend this website. How to be a Good Theoretical Physicist by Nobel Laureate 't Hooft. Also look for good physics lectures on Youtube.

Your posts were not flawless? Come on sir. I urge you to post once a month. I liked your approach to questions. I am a non Scientist btw

 

[marcusl]

To get back to the OP, I would counsel against entering as a sophomore. It sounds like you have essentially no background in math or physics at the college level so the chances are very high that your plan will result in you hopelessly lost. Back up and start as a freshman. Calculus and calculus-based physics at the typical freshman level (Halliday and Resnick, e.g.) are plenty challenging. You will need to catch up on algebra, trig and geometry, as well, which I assume that you had in the distant past. If not, I would start with those, perhaps at a local community college (their schedules are often friendlier to working students), and delay entry as a freshman to a full 4-year college. If you go this route, resist the temptation to apply your credits to get ahead, and start 4-year college with the freshman classes. Working full time puts you at an immediate disadvantage. Lacking the preparation of your soon-to-be peers doubles that. You need to do things to increase your chances of success.

 

[symbolipoint]

You will need to catch up on algebra, trig and geometry, as well, which I assume that you had in the distant past. If not, I would start with those, perhaps at a local community college (their schedules are often friendlier to working students), and delay entry as a freshman to a full 4-year college. If you go this route, resist the temptation to apply your credits to get ahead, and start 4-year college with the freshman classes. Working full time puts you at an immediate disadvantage. Lacking the preparation of your soon-to-be peers doubles that. You need to do things to increase your chances of success.

Be aware that some or many colleges or community colleges may prohibit you from enrolling into any course which you earned previous credit. Try to enroll in Algebra 1,2, Geometry, Trigonometry if you already earned successful credit could mean, enrollment not permitted. Check where you will go.

 

[FactChecker]

By all means, if there is an astronomical society group near you, join that. You can get involved in things and decide how much more education you need to do work that interests you.

 

[bhobba]

I just want to let people know the open university here in Australia now has a Masters in astronomy program:
https://www.open.edu.au/degrees/master-of-science-astronomy-swinburne-university-swi-ast-mas
You need a degree in a cognate area - they are listed in the info. If you have a degree in Religious study's, here in Austrlia 8 subjects at Bachelor level, or above, usually called graduate diploma, is considered equivalent to having a double degree in Religious studies and that other area. At least 4 subjects must be at 3rd year Bachelors level or above. I suspect even if its not an actual degree just 8 relevant subjects, you would still get admitted. Unfortunately degrees here in Australia, unless you have Australian citizenship, are not cheap - but the exchange rate is good right now. As an example of the kind of graduate diploma you could do see:
https://online.jcu.edu.au/online-courses/graduate-diploma-data-science
My old alma mata Queensland University Of Technology had a degree perfect for what you want - a graduate diploma in applied math - but I think they don't teach it any more. Pity - any degree was fine for admission - even if you didn't have calculus they would give you one on one tutoring with a professor for about 30 minutes a week before you start.

Thanks
Bill