Causality preserved in Klein-Gordon equation

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    Causality Klein-gordon
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the preservation of causality in the context of the Klein-Gordon equation, specifically examining the properties of the propagator defined in Peskin and Schroeder's quantum field theory text. Participants explore the implications of Lorentz transformations on the commutation relations of field operators, particularly in relation to space-like and time-like intervals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how Lorentz transformations are applied in the context of the propagator and why they can be performed for space-like intervals but not for time-like intervals.
  • Another participant clarifies that the propagator is defined as the Wightman function and discusses its properties as a Lorentz-scalar field, emphasizing that the equality of the propagator under Lorentz transformations holds due to its scalar nature.
  • There is a detailed explanation of how to construct a coordinate system for space-like vectors where the time component can be set to zero, allowing for the transformation to yield a negative of the original vector.
  • Participants discuss the limitations of this transformation for time-like vectors, noting that the sign of the time component cannot be altered by proper orthochronous Lorentz transformations.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the equality of the propagator under different arguments, prompting further discussion about the nature of scalar fields and their dependence on vectors.
  • Another participant reiterates that a scalar field must be a function of the square of the vector, reinforcing the argument about the equality of the propagator under transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement on the properties of the propagator as a scalar field and the implications of Lorentz transformations for space-like and time-like intervals. However, there remains some uncertainty regarding the specific conditions under which these properties hold, particularly in relation to the equality of the propagator under different arguments.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex mathematical reasoning and assumptions about the nature of scalar fields and Lorentz transformations. Some steps in the arguments presented are not fully resolved, particularly regarding the conditions under which the propagator's properties apply.

Silviu
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Hello! I am reading Peskin's book on QFT and in chapter one he shows that ##[\phi(x), \phi(y)] = D(x-y) - D(y-x)##, with ##D(x-y)## being the propagator from ##x## to ##y##. He says that if ##(x-y)^2<0## we can do a Lorentz transformation such that ##(x-y) \to -(x-y)## and hence the commutator vanishes and causality is conserved. Also he says that if ##(x-y)^2>0## we can't make such a Lorentz transformation. I am not sure how is he doing these Lorentz transformations and why you can do them in the first case but not in the second. Also, I am not sure I understand how can you do in the fist case this transformation just for the second propagator, while keeping the first one fixed.
 
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First of all, it's always important to tell which propagator you are talking about. It's about Peskin+Schroeder Section 2.4. So here he defines ##D## to be the Wightman function (vev of a fixed-order field-operator product),
$$D(x-y)=\langle 0|\hat{\phi}(x) \hat{\phi}(y)|0 \rangle=\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{p} \frac{1}{(2 \pi)^3 2 E_{\vec{p}}} \exp[-\mathrm{i} p\cdot(x-y)].$$
This is a Lorentz-scalar field, because ##\mathrm{d}^3 \vec{p}/(2 E_{\vec{p}})## is a Lorentz scalar and all other ingredients in the integral are manifestly Lorentz invariant (with Lorentz invariant here I mean invariance under the proper orthochronous Lorentz group). Since further there is no other four vector then ##z=x-y## this implies that
$$D'(z')=D(z')=D(z), \quad z'=\Lambda z, \quad \Lambda \in \mathrm{SO}(1,3)^{\uparrow}.$$
This implies that if the claim about space-like vectors is true you have
$$D(z)=D(-z) \quad \text{for} \quad z^2<0,$$
and this implies that the vev of the commutator which is ##D(x-y)-D(y-x)## by definition, indeed vanishes for space-like ##x-y##.

Now let's prove the claim about space-like vectors. So let ##z^2<0##. Then we can always use a coordinate system, where ##z^0=0##. To see this just take ##e_1=z/\sqrt{-z \cdot z}## as one of the space-like basis vectors. The basis can be obviously constructed such that the change to this coordinate system is given by a proper orthochronous Lorentz transformation. So we have
$$z=\begin{pmatrix}0\\ z^1 \\ 0 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
Now a rotation around the ##z^3##-axis reads
$$z^{\prime 0}=z^0=0, \quad \vec{z}'=\begin{pmatrix} \cos \phi & \sin \phi & 0\\ -\sin \phi & \cos \phi & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}z^1 \\0 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix} = z^1 \begin{pmatrix} \cos \phi \\ -\sin \phi \\0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
For ##\phi=\pi## you get ##\vec{z}'=-\vec{z}##, as claimed.

It's a good exercise to prove that this argument doesn't work for timelike vectors, because the sign of ##z^0## cannot be changed by a proper orthochronous Lorentz transformation (that's why it's called orthochronous).
 
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vanhees71 said:
First of all, it's always important to tell which propagator you are talking about. It's about Peskin+Schroeder Section 2.4. So here he defines ##D## to be the Wightman function (vev of a fixed-order field-operator product),
$$D(x-y)=\langle 0|\hat{\phi}(x) \hat{\phi}(y)|0 \rangle=\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{p} \frac{1}{(2 \pi)^3 2 E_{\vec{p}}} \exp[-\mathrm{i} p\cdot(x-y)].$$
This is a Lorentz-scalar field, because ##\mathrm{d}^3 \vec{p}/(2 E_{\vec{p}})## is a Lorentz scalar and all other ingredients in the integral are manifestly Lorentz invariant (with Lorentz invariant here I mean invariance under the proper orthochronous Lorentz group). Since further there is no other four vector then ##z=x-y## this implies that
$$D'(z')=D(z')=D(z), \quad z'=\Lambda z, \quad \Lambda \in \mathrm{SO}(1,3)^{\uparrow}.$$
This implies that if the claim about space-like vectors is true you have
$$D(z)=D(-z) \quad \text{for} \quad z^2<0,$$
and this implies that the vev of the commutator which is ##D(x-y)-D(y-x)## by definition, indeed vanishes for space-like ##x-y##.

Now let's prove the claim about space-like vectors. So let ##z^2<0##. Then we can always use a coordinate system, where ##z^0=0##. To see this just take ##e_1=z/\sqrt{-z \cdot z}## as one of the space-like basis vectors. The basis can be obviously constructed such that the change to this coordinate system is given by a proper orthochronous Lorentz transformation. So we have
$$z=\begin{pmatrix}0\\ z^1 \\ 0 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
Now a rotation around the ##z^3##-axis reads
$$z^{\prime 0}=z^0=0, \quad \vec{z}'=\begin{pmatrix} \cos \phi & \sin \phi & 0\\ -\sin \phi & \cos \phi & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}z^1 \\0 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix} = z^1 \begin{pmatrix} \cos \phi \\ -\sin \phi \\0 \end{pmatrix}.$$
For ##\phi=\pi## you get ##\vec{z}'=-\vec{z}##, as claimed.

It's a good exercise to prove that this argument doesn't work for timelike vectors, because the sign of ##z^0## cannot be changed by a proper orthochronous Lorentz transformation (that's why it's called orthochronous).
Thank you for you answer. I am just now sure why ##D'(z')=D(z')=D(z)##. The first and the 3rd term are equal as D is a scalar field. But why does the equality in the middle holds?
 
By definition a scalar field obeys
$$D'(z')=D(z).$$
Now since there's no other vector involved, of which ##D## could depend, and thus you must have ##D'=D##, i.e., also ##D'(z')=D(z')##.

Another argument is that if you have no other vectors then ##z## a scalar function must be a function of ##z^2##.
 

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