Challenge V: Sylvester-Gallai Theorem, solved by Mandelbroth

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter micromass
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Challenge Theorem
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Sylvester-Gallai Theorem, focusing on various cases of point configurations and their implications regarding collinearity. Participants explore the theorem's proof through specific cases, particularly for small values of n, and engage in technical reasoning about distances and contradictions in geometric arrangements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that for n=1 and n=0, the configurations are trivial since all points lie on a straight line.
  • Others assert that cases for n=0, 1, 2, and 3 have been proven, but express uncertainty about generalizing beyond n=3.
  • One participant proposes a proof by contradiction for n>3, suggesting that if not all points are collinear, certain geometric conditions lead to contradictions.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the proof, indicating that the assumptions about points a and b in relation to line l need clarification.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of distances between points and lines, with one asserting that if a contradiction arises, then all points must be collinear.
  • There is a back-and-forth regarding the assumptions made in the proof, particularly concerning the placement of points relative to the lines being considered.
  • A participant mentions the possibility of proving a generalization through strong induction but refrains from doing so.
  • Discussions about specific situations in the proof attempt highlight ongoing confusion and the need for further clarification on certain claims.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the trivial cases for small n, but there is significant disagreement and uncertainty regarding the proof for larger n and the assumptions made in the proof attempt. The discussion remains unresolved with competing views on the validity of the arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in understanding the final steps of the proof and the implications of the geometric configurations. There are unresolved questions about the assumptions regarding the placement of points a and b and their relationship to the lines involved.

  • #31
micromass said:
Sure, post it!

\textbf{Definition}[\text{set of lines generated by a set of points in the plane}]: \\<br /> \text{ Given any two points on the plane }p_1,p_2\text{, let } L_{p_1 p_2} \text{ denote the line going through the two points.}\\ \text{We will call this the line generated by }p_1 \text{ and }p_2.

\text{If } P \text{ is a finite set of points in the plane, Let } L_P:=\{L_{p_i p_j}: p_i,p_i\in P, i\neq j\}. \\ \text{ We will call this the set of lines generated by P}


Okay, now we can focus a bit on the question!. We want to show that given any finite set of points
P in the \mathbb{R}^2, if not all the points lay on a straight line, then there exists a line going through exactly two of the points. We will do this by contradiction. As I mentioned before, This is basically Kelly's proof (Which Micromass mentioned earlier), I may have seen it on a problem set earlier on, but the idea struck me regardless. Let us begin.

Suppose towards a contradiction there exists a finite set of points
P=\{p_1,p_2,...,p_n\}\subset \mathbb{R}^2 with the property that |L\cap P|\geq 3 for all L\in L_P. That is, every line in L_P intersects at least
3 points of P.

Consider the set D:=\{d(p,L): p\in P, L\in L_P \thinspace and \thinspace p\notin L\}. This set is finite and bounded below by 0, and thus has a minimum a&gt;0. Let p,L be such that d(p,L)=a.

It is intutively helpful after this point to visualize what is going on graphically (on paper).

Connect p to L by forming the line perpendicular to L that goes through p, We can call this line PL, and notice that it must have length a. By the initial assumption, the line L intersects at least 3 points of P, so at least two of these points must lay to one side of the point where L and PL intersect (as Kelly's proof points out- it is of course okay for one of these points to be exactly on the intersection). Denote the point closest to the intersection q_1 and the point furthest q_2. Then L_{q_2 p}\in L_P. Form
The line L_2Q perpendicular to L_{q_2 p} and through q_1. Then it is easy to see that d(q_1,L_{q_2 p})&lt;d(p,L). As Kelly's proof suggests, you can just note that the triangle with hypotenuse q_1q_2 is similar to the triangle with hypotenuse pq_2.

This of course contradicts the fact that d(p,L)=\min{D}, and we are done.

The proof is identical to Kelly's proof except the notation I used is definitely harsher and some small parts are explained differently. Minor differences that helped me work through the problem but at the end of the day can be cleaned up. I originally tried doing it by strong induction and got stuck for awhile but eventually got the right kind of idea! fun problem
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Darn, the idea I had for proving the generalization didn't work, the hurdle was more like an infinite slope. Instead one must use the number of lines; there are too many lines for all of them to have 3 points on. Each new point generates tons of new lines.

Anyway, I'm leaving this.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 80 ·
3
Replies
80
Views
10K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K