Change of the minkowski metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of changing the Minkowski metric to a general metric in the context of special and general relativity. Participants explore the effects on Poincaré invariance and the nature of coordinate transformations, particularly in relation to electromagnetism and general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that changing the Minkowski metric to a general metric will violate Poincaré invariance in electromagnetism but allows for a broader set of coordinate transformations.
  • Another participant argues that while one can choose a transformation of a specific form, the properties of the transformation matrix (Lambda) are crucial, as they must preserve the Minkowski metric.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that changing from Cartesian to non-Cartesian coordinates alters the appearance of the metric without changing its fundamental nature.
  • One participant points out that assuming Minkowski coordinates exist in general relativity is incorrect, as they do not exist except in special cases, thus complicating the definition of Lorentz transformations.
  • Another participant clarifies that special relativity is a subset of general relativity, where the Poincaré group applies to Minkowski spacetime, while general relativity involves a more complex manifold and metric, potentially lacking a corresponding isometry group.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between Minkowski and general metrics, the nature of coordinate transformations, and the applicability of the Poincaré group in general relativity. There is no consensus on these issues.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for a deeper understanding of manifold theory and (pseudo-)Riemannian manifolds to fully grasp the implications of their arguments in the context of general relativity.

ChrisVer
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If I am not mistaken, the change of the minkowski metric to:
[itex]n_{\mu\nu} \rightarrow g_{\mu\nu}(x)[/itex]
will violate the Poincare invariance of (example) the Electromagnetism Action.
However it allows us to define a wider set of arbitrary transformations (coordinate transformations).

The last line confuses me. If I can choose a general coordinate system without a problem (since everything will remain invariant) what restricts my choice not to be of the form:
[itex]x'^{a}(x^{b})= Λ^{a}_{b}x^{b}+p^{a}[/itex]?
 
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Nothing will prevent you from choosing that form of a transformation, if your Lambda matrix is arbitrary. What's special about the Poincare transformations is that the Lambda matrix has special properties (i.e. that it preserves the Minkowski metric). General coordinate transformations will not. Try a change from Cartesian coordinates to Polar coordinates and see what your lambda matrix has to be, and then notice that it is not in the group of Lorentz transformations.
 
The Poincare group consists of Lorentz transformations ((hyperbolic) rotations in spacetime
by ##\Lambda##) and spacetime translations by ##a \in \mathbb{R}^4##. Changing you coordinate system from one cartesian one to another one corresponds to letting the Poincare group act on your coordinate system via
$$x'^i=\Lambda^i{}_j x^j + a^i \, .$$
Since
$$\eta = \eta_{ij} \, d x^i \, dx^j$$
you will find that this transformation leaves the metric invariant. Note that I omitted the tensor product, because it is symmetric. Changing to another non-cartesian coordinate system does not (!) change your metric, however, it does change how it looks like in your coordinate system. The EM-field tensor is
$$F= F_{ij} \, d x^i \wedge d x^j$$
and things work in an entirely analogous manner.
 
ChrisVer said:
The last line confuses me. If I can choose a general coordinate system without a problem (since everything will remain invariant) what restricts my choice not to be of the form:
[itex]x'^{a}(x^{b})= Λ^{a}_{b}x^{b}+p^{a}[/itex]?

You seem to be assuming that Minkowski coordinates still exist in GR. They don't (except in special cases). Therefore there is no way to define a Lorentz transformation.
 
Yes, if this is really a GR question, then you're thinking about this in an entirely wrong manner.
Let's get this straight: Special relativity is indeed a special case of general relativity. Spacetime in special relativity is ##(\mathbb R ^4 , \eta)##, where ##\mathbb R ^4## is your spacetime manifold and ##\eta## tells you implicitly how far points are from each other, angles and which directions are spacelike, timelike, lightlike/null, etc. The poincare group is the group of active (or passive if interpreted as coordinate transformations) transformations on your manifold that leave the metric ##\eta## the same.
In general relativity, we replace ##\mathbb R ^4## by a general 4-dimensional manifold ##Q## and the Minkowski metric ##\eta## by a general non-constant metric ##g##, which is a solution to the Einstein equation. Then the group of transformations that leaves ##g## invariant will not be the Poincare group. In fact, this group might not even exist. If it does, it is called an isometry group, because it doesn't change distances. Hence the Poincare group is the "largest" group of isometries of Minkowski spacetime.

Please read up on basic manifold theory, especially (pseudo-)Riemannian manifolds, before diving into GR.
 

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