Changing fields in postdoc, career routes, etc

[blade2011]

As a second year graduate student, I've been working in a quantum chromodynamics group for some time. I haven't published, but I am getting interested in many other things such as condensed matter physics, quantum computing, etc. Also I had an engineering degree with a physics minor, and originally hep-ph got me into grad school.

So I am thinking..how easy is it to switch areas after phd? Say I went on and continued to work on strong interactions or something, how easy would it be to get a postdoc in condensed matter physics, or experimental physics? Would my engineering degree help at that time, even though my phd would be in something else?

 

[caffenta]

It's going to be difficult. Currently, since there are way more applicants than positions, it is very likely that someone else applying for the same position will have the exact background/skills required. Unless you have an in (someone you know who wields a lot of power), it's unlikely that you'd be picked. It's not impossible, but be prepared for a lot of rejections.

The engineering degree will help you get a job outside academia.

 

[blade2011]

The engineering degree will help you get a job outside academia.

Will the engineering degree help after my PhD in theoretical physics (for instance)?

 

[Artus]

If your Engineering major is in Electrical Engineering or mechanical Engineering, you can get into Power systems or something like that. But it depends of your skills.

 

[blade2011]

If your Engineering major is in Electrical Engineering or mechanical Engineering, you can get into Power systems or something like that. But it depends of your skills.

Sorry if I sound like wanting to switch careers in the middle of phd, but I am wondering how 'credible' my undergrad ee major will be a few years from now when I graduate with a phd in theoretical physics, I would be seen not to have been doing engineering for a while...basically I want to know what the perceptions of potential employers are like, both in academia and outside.

 

[caffenta]

Will the engineering degree help after my PhD in theoretical physics (for instance)?

Well, I think it might help you get over the "wall" that theorists seem to hit when they try to get into some industries, because an employer can see that you already know the field. However, I can't really say how much help. If they hire you as a PhD, they have to pay you more. If they don't think what you did in grad school adds value, they won't hire you. Different employers view value differently.

Industry also has too many applicants compared to available jobs right now, so companies can pick the perfect candidate. If we were in an upturn and companies really needed to hire people, then they might not find that perfect candidate.

Does your school have on campus job fairs, even if it's just for undergrads? You could ask companies directly whether they would hire someone like you. All you need is to make your resume.

I think it's good that you are asking these questions now.

 

[twofish-quant]

Industry also has too many applicants compared to available jobs right now, so companies can pick the perfect candidate.

Also sometimes the perfect candidate is someone that doesn't have too many qualifications. One thing that does concern an employer that hires someone with credentials that are too good is that they'll leave/ask for more money the second the economy gets better.

The curse of being overqualified is something that people that are used to academia find a little bizarre.

If we were in an upturn and companies really needed to hire people, then they might not find that perfect candidate.

You saw that in the dot-com boom. Employers were hiring random people that knew anything about computers. A lot of them survived after the boom ended, and I know people that were real estate developers, physical therapists, and other random things that ended up being computer programmers around 2000.

Something that will help you is that you have at least a stable job for the next few years, and to some extent you can control when you graduate.

Does your school have on campus job fairs, even if it's just for undergrads? You could ask companies directly whether they would hire someone like you. All you need is to make your resume.

It's a lot more Kafka-sque than that.

Suppose you have a company with 200,000 employees that has 100 physics Ph.D.'s and hires about 10 a year. The odds are good that if you ask someone from HR whether that company hires Ph.D.'s or not, they may answer no since HR has no clue that there is a division of said company that hires lots of physics Ph.D.'s. The HR person is mostly concerned with processing the 5000 non-Ph.D.'s that they hire, and is clueless about Ph.D. hiring.

It would be nice if Ph.D. programs did a better job of navigating corporate bureaucracy, but they don't. The second best thing is to try to form alumni networks.

One other thing that is very different from academia is that academic bureaucracies tend to be transparent whereas corporate bureaucracies are secretive. If you go to an university, you can get a phone book with the office phone numbers and e-mails of the people that work there.

That sort of information in large corporations is considered state secret and you can get fired if you give out phone numbers and job titles to someone that isn't authorized to have that information. Public numbers for large corporations go to people who are specialized in making you go away without causing trouble.

To add to the Kafkasque world. If you go to any university you can at least find the name and office phone number of the person that is in charge of admissions. What people often find shocking is that no such person or group exists in most corporations. If you ask for the phone number of HR, you'll find that there isn't one. You either know the name of the person that you want to talk to, or you don't, and if you don't, then you'll be talking to someone whose job it is to make you go away quietly.

 

[DrummingAtom]

Sorry if I sound like wanting to switch careers in the middle of phd, but I am wondering how 'credible' my undergrad ee major will be a few years from now when I graduate with a phd in theoretical physics, I would be seen not to have been doing engineering for a while...basically I want to know what the perceptions of potential employers are like, both in academia and outside.

Hi blade2011, I'm an EE major with a heavy physics envy. If you don't mind me asking, did you major in EE only or do a double major with physics? Was the transition difficult from EE to physics in grad school?

I just haven't seen many EE's converted to physics in grad school and I'm possibly interested in doing the same thing. Thanks for any help.

 

[caffenta]

I just haven't seen many EE's converted to physics in grad school and I'm possibly interested in doing the same thing. Thanks for any help.

You can do physics in grad school while being in EE. Depending on the specialization, (experimental) solid-state physicists, EEs, materials scientists can do very similar things. In my days, we all worked together. Didn't even know who was in which department unless it came up in a discussion.

Once you're done with classes, what you do depends more on your advisor than your department.

 

[blade2011]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Twofish-quant, its one thing to get any kind of job, and its quite another to get one whose description overlaps your background isn't it? Also, you have raised an interesting point - why does a person who has a PhD have to be paid more?

Understandably, phd in an abstract theoretical area will whitewash my engineering skills (on paper to every prospective employer it seems)? THough I am still very keen on wanting to study physics and continue doing research I am a little worried by what I read on the forums here and of course hearsay. Not everyone who will do a phd will easily get a postdoc; besides we certainly do not live in a universe where you can do what you want and have an assured income :-)

I guess what I want to do is integrate my backgrounds somehow and extend it naturally because from whatever you guys are saying, if I finish my phd in theoretical physics and walk out into the world, nobody will care that I remember how to bias transistors, design analog circuits and set up an instrumentation lab because my thesis will likely be a lot of abstract math and some code with no practical applications..