Changing the sign of 4-momenta in Feynman diagrams

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of changing the sign of external 4-momenta in Feynman diagrams, particularly focusing on the differences between diagrams involving only bosons versus those that include fermions. Participants explore the consequences of such transformations on amplitudes and the underlying physics as dictated by Feynman rules.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that multiplying all external 4-momenta by negative one should yield the same amplitude for diagrams involving only bosons, based on Feynman rules.
  • Another participant argues that it is impossible to have a Feynman diagram with only one fermion due to momentum conservation, asserting that time reversal leads to a phase transformation that does not affect observables.
  • A participant notes that a fermion propagator does not exhibit even or odd behavior with respect to the sign of the 4-momentum, while a boson propagator is even, implying that amplitudes with only boson propagators should be unaffected by sign changes.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the cancellation of effects when two fermions are involved and plans to review literature for insights on symmetries related to sign changes in 4-momenta.
  • Another participant emphasizes that interactions between fermions involve boson exchange, suggesting that the direction of momentum does not impact the physics involved in such interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of changing the sign of 4-momenta, particularly regarding the role of fermions and bosons in Feynman diagrams. There is no consensus on whether the proposed transformations yield the same physical results across different scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as time reversal and momentum conservation, indicating that the discussion may hinge on specific assumptions about particle interactions and the nature of propagators. The implications of these transformations remain unresolved.

geoduck
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If a Feynman diagram only involves bosons, then can you multiply all external 4-momenta by negative one, and still get the same amplitude? Looking at the Feynman rules this seems true.

If the diagram has a fermion (as real or virtual particle), then it seems this is no longer true.

I just want to verify this. There probably should be a deeper reason for this, but just looking at the Feynman rules, it seems it ought to be true when only bosons are involved, and not true when at least one fermion is involved.
 
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I don't see any Feynman diagram having only one fermion... Being a spin-1/2 particle it is impossible to have total momentum conservation with only one real or vitusl fermion and all the rest bosons.
Multiplying the external momenta by -1 is equivalent to a time reversal, on my perspective. Time reversal creates a factor of [itex](-1)^{2j}[/itex] on the wavefunctions, where j is the associsted spin. Of course this is just a phase transformation, so nothing changes when computing cross-sections and other observables.
But I think you don't even have to worry about this, since from my argument we see that there cannot be an odd number of fermions at a vertex, so at each time possible factors will cancel.
Do you think this is reasonable?
 
kevinferreira said:
I don't see any Feynman diagram having only one fermion... Being a spin-1/2 particle it is impossible to have total momentum conservation with only one real or vitusl fermion and all the rest bosons.
Multiplying the external momenta by -1 is equivalent to a time reversal, on my perspective. Time reversal creates a factor of [itex](-1)^{2j}[/itex] on the wavefunctions, where j is the associsted spin. Of course this is just a phase transformation, so nothing changes when computing cross-sections and other observables.
But I think you don't even have to worry about this, since from my argument we see that there cannot be an odd number of fermions at a vertex, so at each time possible factors will cancel.
Do you think this is reasonable?

A fermion propagator is neither even nor odd in the sign of the 4-momentum.

A boson propagator however is even.

Since an amplitude is just the product of propagators, you expect anything with just boson propagators to not care about the sign of the 4-momenta flowing through it.

You might be right about having two fermions and it ends up cancelling or something: but I don't immediately see it. I'm going to go through a book that has all the calculations for typical processes and see if there are symmetries in changing the the sign of all 4-momenta.

I'll have to review discrete symmetries like time reversal.
 
you are thinking in terms of propagators which does comes into picture when one will consider interaction.two fermions will interact by an exchange of some boson and propagator of boson gets involved.In no case you will find any propagator all through space.it is rubbish.you might have seen in a simple feynman diagram for say two electrons interacting with each other by exchange of virtual photon.Any electron can emit it.it is not taken into account which one is emitting and which one is absorbing.There is no preferred direction for it.so whether you write it's momentum in opposite direction.it should not change any physics.
 

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