Chemical kinetics - reaction rate

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the order of reaction with respect to thiosulfate ions (S2O32-) and hydrogen ions (H+) in a chemical kinetics context. Participants explore the relationship between concentration and reaction rate, while also addressing experimental design and data interpretation.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to graph the relationship between concentration of S2O32- and reaction time, suggesting it appears to be second order.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the plotted data, indicating it does not convey meaningful information.
  • A participant critiques the experimental design, suggesting that the "time for reaction to finish" is an ambiguous term and should refer to the time for the solution to become cloudy.
  • There is a suggestion that the concentration of product S at which the solution becomes cloudy could be used to derive a velocity measurement, but this is framed as a rough estimate.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the experiment, with one participant expressing that it may not yield useful results and criticizing the clarity of the data presentation.
  • Another participant inquires about the effect of varying volumes of water on the reaction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and clarity of the experimental approach, with no consensus reached on the effectiveness of the proposed methods for determining reaction order.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unclear definitions of experimental endpoints, potential misinterpretation of plotted data, and the lack of variation in HCl concentration to determine its order in the reaction.

chizuru
Messages
3
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


2HCl + Na2S2O3 -> 2NaCl +S + SO2 + H2O
Find the order of reaction with respect to S2O32- and H+
che17.png

volume of 3.0M HCl was held constant at 2ml

Homework Equations


S2O32- + 2H+ -> S + SO2 + H2O
rate = k[Na2S2O3]m[HCl]n (see number 3.)

The Attempt at a Solution


i just started taking calculus so I'm having a hard time understanding most of the equations I find in the net and most of them skip the part of solving so I can't find enough examples.
I tried to graph the S2O32- part first
che.png

Concentration of reaction against time(left)
Rate of Reaction against Concentration of a Reactant(right)

it "looks" like the graph of a second order. could someone please tell me if it is correct and another way of solving it aside from graphing and some calculus? thanks in advance
 
Physics news on Phys.org
and additional question, may i know the effect of having different volumes of water?
 
Please explain what you plotted, to be honest it doesn't look like anything to me.

Edit: adding water just dilutes solutions.
 
And "time for reaction to finish" doesn't really mean anything. It never finishes. Though I can make a guess, operationally what was it?
 
Sorry for being unclear. The "time for reaction to finish" should be the "time elapsed for the solution to be completely cloudy".
For the graph at the left: the x-axis is the time elapsed for the solution to be completely cloudy and the y-axis is the number of moles/L.
For the graph at the right: the x-axis is the number of moles/L and the y-axis is the number of moles/(L * time)
 
It is almost embarrassing. I am inclined to advise don’t waste clean thought on such a dirty experiment. Any calculus would certainly be overkill.

But if you really do have to write up something:
Do you have any idea of the concentration of product S at which the “solution becomes completely cloudy”? If that is just a small fraction of the Na2S2O3 and you know what it is, call it Ccrit, you could just about say that Ccrit/(time to reach Ccrit) is a velocity in moles.L-1s-1. And if you don’t know what Ccrit is then 1/(time to reach Ccrit) is proportional to velocity. This is something like your RHS fig turned sideways and reflected. Which looks roughly linear.
With the proviso that that is the vaguest roughest experimental endpoint imaginable.
And that if Ccrit is not comparatively small as said, forget trying to do anything at all.And that you would have to clean up your presentation.
I don’t know why your table has 3 points and your graph 5.
Your vertical axis on left table can’t possibly be moles/L
You couldn’t find the order in HCl as you haven’t varied it.

I don't know if I got across I have rarely seen such a bad experiment, sorry.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
9K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
4K
Replies
10
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K