Chocolate milk: does it keep longer than regular milk?

[Moonbear]

Having set up the test I have run into a small snag, my cat seems to be running amock over my experiment by drinking the test fluids. I have therefore restarted the test and placed said fluids in a location my cat cannot reach. Environmental considerations should now be considered to be the same for all 4 dishes.

Cats prefer whole milk to chocolate milk it seems. Although interesting this is not part of my experiment.

I hope you have followed all the appropriate regulatory procedures for that bit of animal testing in your experiment, or else PETA might come after you. Ah, the trials and tribulations of research.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I know well it's 6 hours into testing and not 1 of the saucers has gone off, damn this northern climate, well at least we have the gulf stream in this latitude, keeping the temperature vaguely regular: don't worry our house temperature is close to room temperature.

Keeping you updated in the interest of science.

1am GMT, cat is asleep and seems disinterested with milk situation, which is good from an experimental point of view, dog dead to the world too, we have a go!

All is going to plan, science is a hard task master but I believe we have a scientificly valid go on this one.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Ok further up date it's now 7am GMT 12hrs from the start of the experiment and surprisingly none of the saucers shows any sign of going off. I had wanted to leave a proxy to monitor the situation while I slept but as is so often true, you really just can't get the staff.

The cat situation has been neatly remedied by leaving the dog in the kitchen; he's been keeping the cat at bay by poking his head through the cat flap most of the night, this appears to have destroyed the sinister felines machinations on milk consumption. I feel we're nearing SP or sour point; I'm getting all tingly with excitement, I now know what it was like for those scientists back on Earth when Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon. Till later watch this space...

 

[Moonbear]

Ok further up date it's now 7am GMT 12hrs from the start of the experiment and surprisingly none of the suacers shows any sign of going off. I had wanted to leave a proxy to monitor the situation while I slept but as is so often true, you really just can't get the staff.

The cat situation has been neatly remedied by leaving the dog in the kitchen; he's been keeping the cat at bay by poking his head through the cat flap most of the night, this appears to have destroyed the sinister felines machinations on milk consumption. I feel we're nearing sp or sour point; I'm getting all tingly with excitement, I now know what it was like for those scientists back on Earth when Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon. Till later watch this space...

My bet's on them both souring when you have to leave for a few hours for a class or something so you won't know which one soured first.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Off work today and handed in my last assessment at the weekend so a bit of free time. It's now 10:17am GMT and both the control and to a smaller extent the whole milk have a skin forming, both still passed the tea test. The chocolate ones look and seem as they did before, I don't want to jump the gun here but I think we have definite sourage of the white milk and non sourage of the chocolate, I suspect in another hour or so we will have the conclusive results we need.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

1:13pm GMT have completed test for SP but negative on whole milk and chocolate. I have ammended test instruments to show that I am using a properly steralise(boiling water) fat baster as a pipette. The whole milk certainly looks to be turning but the generally cold weather means STP is being maintained. It'd be hard to see if the chocolate stuff is turning as it's a little thicker.

Had it been a hotter or more humid day I would have expected the milk to turn in a few hours, as it is it is now 20 hours in and we have yet to see curdled milk in the tea test. In fact I am drinking tea with a small amount of the test material in as I write. Mmm a little chocolaty, actually not that unpleasant Science it seems does have it's perks.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

3:43pm milk still not turned according to tea test but whole milk seems to be quite yellow on the skin on the surface only a matter of time, chocolate milk still chocalaty and still looks exactly the same as it did 21 hours ago.

Minor blip though cat might go for the milk but appears dissinterested.

 

[jimmy p]

It might affect the experiment, but have you tried stirring the milk?

 

[chronon]

I think the milk is being affected by the quantum zeno effect - you keep observing it and so forcing it into a non-sour eigenstate.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

yes ok, what will stiring the milk do? I don't think Quantum effects have an apreciable effect on milk but I'm no expert I'll erm bear it in mind.

Oh yeah that would mix the bacteria in I supose? Provided I did it for both I don't think it would destroy the experiment?

 

[Orefa]

Place all your samples on a board and move the board gently to stir. This should be sufficient, it will stir all samples the same way and it will prevent cross contamination from utensils.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Results: white milk seems to have curdled faster than chocolate milk, the stirring seems to have accelerated the process. In the control and main sample both have sperated and curdled and fail the tea test.

Conclusion: Chocolate milk does indeed seem to have a preservative component the milk doesn't share, further research into the mix between sugars and fats and the ratios may reveal the exact reason but for now the chocolate passes the SP test after 25 hours of testing. I therefore humbly submit to the Scientists amongst you that at least in this single experiment it seems that whole milk will spoil faster than Chocolate milk

After thoughts: thanks to Orefa for the stiring sugestion I'd like to thank all my fellow science advisors for their continued support and for there kind words, but there weren't any. I'd like to thank my cat for showing that the best layed plans of mice and men should be better layed plans involving dogs. No award or honorary mention is necessary I just hope we can all learn from this experiment, my forthcoming paper in Nature should leave this fascinating field open to replication.

I would like to sincerely thank Physics forums for the kind and considerate help in what has been for me trying experimental conditions. I hope my objectivity was sufficient enough to inspire any scientists that hope to stand on my shoulders.

Plese check the resulting paper for Erata and my list of contributers.

Once again I thank you all, I feel like a small cog in a big machine today

 

[Moonbear]

Bravo! *applauds speech* Now, just trying to remind myself...the whole milk tested was a fresh replacement after the cat stuck its germy tongue into lap up the first bowl, correct? This isn't a test of the effects of cat germs on milk SP, right?

Are there any preservatives in chocolate milk? Did both start out with the same expiration date? Well, you know, there's always controversy surrounding such an apparent break-through discovery.

 

[Orefa]

Awww, are you trying to ruin a perfectly good theory using ugly facts? If so then I'll want a measurement of the initial Coliform count in the various samples used in the experiment.

Edit: Oh yeah, bravo from me too! An entertaining experiment that has kept us all waiting with bated breadth! More! More!

 

[jimmy p]

I helped! for the first time ever! wooooo!

Congrats on the long awaited results.

This was actually quite a fun thread. Do another experiment.

 

[tribdog]

I didn't know bad milk curdled in tea.

 

[tribdog]

try it again. this time take milk out of one bottle and make it into chocolate milk. That way you know the expiration date is the same. If you were using premade chocolate milk I know they add a lot of stuff to it at the factory.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Yeah good ideas, I replaced the original cat drank milk after cleaning the saucer and replaced the control whole milk and chocolate milk too for good measure even if it was only a few minutes after the experiment started. As for expiration dates I still have the whole milk container but I threw the chocolate milk container away after drinking the contents which were very nice btw.

Of course I would suspect that checking the expiration dates on several containrs to see if they last longer than whole milk would have given me some sort of anecdotal evidence too. I shall repeat the experiment at a later date making sure to improve the conditions

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Well time to bump this thread, a new scientific adventure beckons.

Since my premise that chocolate milk appears to keep longer than ordinary milk, I have of course been busy giving lectures and attending forums and conventions where I have presented my revolutionary results, and of course writing up the paper for peer review. I believe Nature and Scientific American have bot expressed interest, my agent tells me to keep them hanging on though

However my forthcoming fame aside it's time to test to see if my premise that it's the increased sugar content of chocolate milk is the reason it keeps so long, or there are other factors involved?

Hypothesis

My premise is therefore that sugary milk should keep longer than standard milk.

Method

I will use saucers 1 to 6(with 0 to 5 spoonfulls of sugar in each) and two controls one with(about the same level as sugar in dish 3) and one without sugar. I will stir each dish every 3 hours 3 times with a sterile pipette which I will also use to administer the tea test (see previous experiment) Each dish will be tested at hourly intervals to see if it has curdled, the experiment will end when the last but one of the non control bowls has curdled.

Unfortunately I lost my cat about a month ago, but this is to sciences benefit even if it is a sore point. So no cat monitoring activity this time. However I will try and make sure nothing contaminates the milk by keeping them in a fairly isolated place.

Equipment

8 saucers
1 pippette
1 kettle for making tea and for sterilization
1 cup
2 sugars
cream to taste
milk
sugar for the saucers

Wish me luck, science is about to take another step into the unknown, important knowledge is mere days away. Doesn't it make you feel all goose pimply and tingly inside?

Experiment begins 8PM GMT this evening. 3PM EST

EDIT: in case anyone thinks the measure of sugar will be off, I'm using measuring spoons of exactly 1tsp, and shaken so that the sugar lies flat with the spoon.

 

[brewnog]

1% and 2% milk.

1% milk? God, you USians really do water stuff down don't you! Our milk here is all milk...

 

[Gokul43201]

Best of luck, SD !

 

[DaveC426913]

1% milk? God, you USians really do water stuff down don't you! Our milk here is all milk...

s'what we get up here too. The choc is 1%, the while milk is 2% unless you get larger containers.

1% milk is great. All the nutrients, half the fat.

 

[Ba]

I get whole milk.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

OK checking in, the first few hours are dull as usual.

I decided not to stir every 3 hours but only once after a long period, and to test only after this first period, going on past history. Will take up the rigorous method tomorrow, but I don't want too quick a result, so I am awake when the SP(sour point) happens.

No funding coming in yet although some interested parties, i.e my mother, who champion she is visited by coincidence and offered support, haven't used my money well, all of it invested in the focus for scientific experimentation, and obsessive interest. Thinking of using advertising and perhaps outsourcing this experiment to interested parties or perhaps just offering a cut in the obvious proceeds such revolutionary science will bring.

Anyway only one thing of note, dog hair in the control(was stroking the sentinel for my experiment, the cat controller, the one who keeps the cats away from the cat flap: now that my staunch fighter(but milk protagonist) has shuffled of his mortal coil) Had to change the milk, very early a few moments in, but no whole milk left so, have gone for half fat milk, I hope this isn't a death nell for scientific objectivity.

Anyway, test so far, with the slings and arrows in mind. Four spoons and above is saturated with sugar with excess syrup resting at the bottom of the mix, but the level of excess sugar should make a difference.

None of the milk shows signs of becoming off, and all the samples past the tea test.

A valuable lesson learned though, always decontaminate the scientist before you approach the test area. doh!

More tomorrow. Watch this space...

Dog get's an honourable mention here, mans best friend and best scientific minion too

 

[Moonbear]

I'm struggling to figure out what you mean by control milk with sugar in it. Isn't your control the milk with no sugar added?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

two controls, one with sugar and one without.

 

[Moonbear]

two controls, one with sugar and one without.

What are you doing with them or not doing with them that makes them controls?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Nothing, I think that's the point of controls. Or have I got it wrong?

Basically just letting them do there own thing under the same conditions.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

OK just finished the second test, my dog is unfortunately resorting to type and making me give big love all through the experiment, thus giving some chance of contamination, must resist the urge to scratch his ears or hug his wubbberly little nose, it's harsh but science demands much of it's adherents.

Results: no curdling of milk no Sour Point(SP)

We shall see, keep watching the stars, who know's what fate may bring?

P.S. Oh and by the way using presice amounts of milk form 8 saucers, leads not only to good scientific method, but a damn fine cup of tea, it's almost precisely milk and two sugars, isn't it wonderful when science comes together with the real world and leaves us just with the almost perfect cup of tea. Now what part of science do we know that does this. Results plus gratification of basic needs, if only I could get the saucers to feed my other desires we would have enlightenment in pure form

Let's hope tomorrow brings more interesting results, Mork out.

 

[Moonbear]

Nothing, I think that's the point of controls. Or have I got it wrong?

Basically just letting them do there own thing under the same conditions.

But if you do nothing with them, how are you measuring what happens with them? Is the idea you don't touch them until you reach the SP on your other saucers, and then determine if the untouched ones are also sour? All in the name of science, y'know...have to make sure everything is being done properly.

Though, you really ought to treat this one as a dose-response test (with varied amounts of sugar), and have replicates for each sugar dose (triplicates are good). And then we'll expect you to plot the regression curve when you're done.