Clarifying the Cooling Stages of a Carnot Engine

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SUMMARY

The discussion clarifies the cooling stages of a Carnot engine, specifically focusing on the reversible isothermal compression at the cold temperature (TC) and isentropic compression. Participants confirm that work must be done on the system to return the piston to its lower volume stage, and this work does not necessarily have to come from the output work of the earlier cycle. The thought experiment involving a gas-filled balloon illustrates the relationship between work done by the gas and the external forces acting on the system during the cooling phase.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the Carnot cycle and its stages
  • Familiarity with thermodynamic concepts such as isothermal and isentropic processes
  • Basic knowledge of work and energy transfer in physical systems
  • Ability to analyze thought experiments in thermodynamics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the Carnot cycle in detail, focusing on each stage's thermodynamic principles
  • Learn about isothermal and isentropic processes in thermodynamics
  • Explore the concept of work done by gases in various thermodynamic cycles
  • Investigate real-world applications of Carnot engines and their efficiency
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Students studying thermodynamics, educators teaching the principles of heat engines, and engineers interested in the theoretical foundations of energy conversion systems.

tiredryan
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Note this is more of a coursework question about the theory behind Carnot engines as opposed to an actual homework question.

Homework Statement


The Attempt at a Solution



So I am reading the theory behind a Carnot Engine and I am a little confused about the cooling stages of the Carnot cycle. This is steps 3 and 4 called, "Reversible isothermal compression of the gas at the "cold" temperature, TC" and "Isentropic compression of the gas(isentropic work input)" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle#The_Carnot_cycle.

From my reading, it seems to be that some work has to be done on the system to return the piston to its lower volume stage. Basically part of the work that was created to push the piston out is used to return the piston back in. Is this a correct understanding?

If so, I am confused when thinking about the following thought experiment. Let's imagine that I had a balloon filled with gas connected to a shaft connected to an object I wanted to apply work on. When I place the balloon in a hot bath the balloon expands and the shaft moves and the object moves. The the shaft pushes the object over a distance and work is done on the object. When I switch out the balloon into cold water, the balloon shrinks and the object moves back. The object is moved by the force applied from the shaft and work is done on the object again. So in the forward cycle and the backward cycle work is being done to push the object. When I move the balloon cold water, I do not need to apply any addition work, but rather work is being done to the object of interest.

I am not sure where my confusion stems. Thanks in advance.
 
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tiredryan said:
From my reading, it seems to be that some work has to be done on the system to return the piston to its lower volume stage. Basically part of the work that was created to push the piston out is used to return the piston back in. Is this a correct understanding?
Essentially yes. Work has to be done to restore the system back to its initial state, but it doesn't necessarily have to be part of the work output from the earlier part of the process.

If so, I am confused when thinking about the following thought experiment. Let's imagine that I had a balloon filled with gas connected to a shaft connected to an object I wanted to apply work on. When I place the balloon in a hot bath the balloon expands and the shaft moves and the object moves. The shaft pushes the object over a distance and work is done on the object. When I switch out the balloon into cold water, the balloon shrinks and the object moves back. The object is moved by the force applied from the shaft and work is done on the object again. So in the forward cycle and the backward cycle work is being done to push the object. When I move the balloon cold water, I do not need to apply any addition work, but rather work is being done to the object of interest.

I am not sure where my confusion stems. Thanks in advance.
It's implied in your description that the object comes to rest in between the two phases. As it decelerates, it's doing work on the gas. Also, when the gas cool, it will contract only if something outside does work. In this case, both the balloon and the outside atmosphere will perform work, and part of the work goes into accelerating the object.
 

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