Classical Version of Vacuum Polarization

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of vacuum polarization in quantum electrodynamics (QED) and its representation in classical physics terms. Participants explore the implications of vacuum polarization on the electric potential generated by a point charge, questioning how this phenomenon can be expressed in a classical framework.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the form of the electric potential when vacuum polarization is included, suggesting it should take the form Q f(r) instead of the classical 1/r.
  • Another participant challenges the premise by stating that classical physics does not predict vacuum polarization, questioning the existence of a function f(r) in this context.
  • A different participant acknowledges the limitations of classical physics but argues that the electric fields produced by virtual particle pairs in QED can be measured experimentally, implying that a function g(r) representing the electric field should exist.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between polarization and charge masking, suggesting that the potential equation should remain unchanged.
  • A participant references historical work by Uehling on vacuum polarization corrections, noting its significance in atomic physics and providing citations for further reading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on how to express vacuum polarization in classical terms. There are competing views on the existence and form of the function representing the electric potential, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on classical versus quantum frameworks, as well as the unresolved nature of how vacuum polarization can be reconciled with classical physics concepts.

ApplePion
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The vacuum polarization result in QED seems to always be written in a "QED form". I would be interested in seeing it in an old-fashioned classical physics form.

Without vacuum polarization the electric potential in a region containing a point charge is of course Q/r. So if the vacuum polarization is included the potential must be of some form Q f(r) where f(r) is no longer 1/r. So what specifically would f(r) be?

Thanks.
 
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But classical physics doesn't predict any vacuum polarisation...

So how can we find a function which is non existent??

i failed to understand your question probably...
 
Yes, I realize that classical physics does not fully predict the phenomenon, but the pairs whose creation was predicted by QED do produce electric fields in accordance with the rules for electric field generation. More important though is that one should be able to in principle do an actual physical experiment--take a point charge and actually measure the electric field around it. Doing the experiment one would get actual numerical data to construct the field as a function of position. What you would get would deviate from the inverse distance squared non-QED function. So what I want to know is what the actual function would be. There IS some function, and it should be expressable in the form E = g(r), where g(r) is a normal function!
 
ApplePion said:
The vacuum polarization result in QED seems to always be written in a "QED form". I would be interested in seeing it in an old-fashioned classical physics form.

Without vacuum polarization the electric potential in a region containing a point charge is of course Q/r. So if the vacuum polarization is included the potential must be of some form Q f(r) where f(r) is no longer 1/r. So what specifically would f(r) be?

Thanks.

I don't understand.
Polarization just masks some of the charge.
the potential equation should be the same.
Shouldnt it?
 
The basic equation for the vacuum polarization correction potential was first derived by Uehling in Phys Rev 48, page 55 (1935). The correction (shielding of the bare charge) extends out to about 1 electron Compton wavelength, so it is a large (often over 1%) correction to atomic binding energies in pionic and muonic atoms.

The Uehling integral is rewritten in a more useful integrable form in Appendix B of Shafer "Pion Mass Measurement..." Phys Rev 163 page 1451 (1967).

Bob S
 
Excellent answer, Bob S.

Thanks.
 

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