What is the Vector Manipulation Formula for Elastic Scattering Angle?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on deriving the vector manipulation formula for the elastic scattering angle in the context of quantum mechanics, specifically related to electron scattering. Participants explore the mathematical relationships involved in calculating the scattering vector and its dependence on the scattering angle.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 introduces the concept of elastic scattering and presents the initial wave function and the transition probability related to the scattering process.
  • Post 2 provides a calculation of the square of the scattering vector ##q^2##, leading to the expression involving the sine of half the scattering angle, suggesting that taking the square root and substituting for momentum will yield the desired formula.
  • Post 3 reiterates the calculation of ##q^2## and questions the derivation of the ##-2k^2 \cos \alpha## term, indicating a need for clarification.
  • Post 4 clarifies the dot product calculation of the wave vectors, explaining how the term arises from the definition of the dot product in terms of the angle between the vectors.
  • Post 5 acknowledges the clarification provided in Post 4 and confirms the understanding of the dot product definition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the derivation of certain terms in the vector manipulation, particularly the dot product term. While some participants clarify points, there is no consensus on the initial derivation presented in Post 1.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the definitions of momentum and wave vectors, as well as the conditions under which elastic scattering occurs. Some mathematical steps remain unresolved, particularly in the initial derivation of the scattering vector.

JD_PM
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
156
I was reading *Introduction to Nuclear Physics* by Krane and stumbled on the following (page 47):

In Elastic scattering, the initial electron wave function is of the form ##e^{i k_i r}## (free particle of momentum ##p_i = \hbar k_i##). The scattered electron can also be regarded as a free particle of momentum ##p_f = \hbar k_f## and wave function ##e^{i k_f r}##.

The interaction ##V(r)## converts the initial wave into the scattered wave; the probability for the transition will be proportional to the square of the following quantity:

$$F(q) = \int V(r) e^{iqr}dv$$

Plugging both Coulomb's potential and charge-per-unit-volume into ##F(q)##:

$$F(q) = \int e^{iqr'} \rho(r') dv'$$

Normalizing and knowing that ##\rho(r')## just depends on ##r'## (and not on ##\theta'## nor ##\phi'##) we get:

$$F(q) = \frac{4\pi}{q}\int r' sin (qr') \rho(r') dr'$$

Where ##q = k_i - k_f##. The scattering is elastic, so momentum is conserved (##p_i = p_f##) and ##q## is merely a function of the scattering angle ##\alpha## between ##p_i## and ##p_f##.

**Now a bit of vector manipulation shows:**

$$q = \frac{2p}{\hbar}sin(\frac{\alpha}{2})$$

**I do not know how to get the last expression**
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Using ##| \mathbf{k}_i | = |\mathbf{k}_f| = k##, calculate ##q^2##:
$$
\begin{align*}
q^2 &= (\mathbf{k}_i - \mathbf{k}_f)^2 \\
&= k^2 - 2 \mathbf{k}_i \cdot \mathbf{k}_f - k^2 \\
&= 2 k^2 (1 - \cos \alpha) \\
&= 4 k^2 \sin^2 (\alpha /2 )
\end{align*}
$$
Taking the square root and using ##p = \hbar k## will give you your equation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: JD_PM
DrClaude said:
Using ##| \mathbf{k}_i | = |\mathbf{k}_f| = k##, calculate ##q^2##:
$$
\begin{align*}
q^2 &= (\mathbf{k}_i - \mathbf{k}_f)^2 \\
&= k^2 - 2 \mathbf{k}_i \cdot \mathbf{k}_f - k^2 \\
&= 2 k^2 (1 - \cos \alpha) \\
&= 4 k^2 \sin^2 (\alpha /2 )
\end{align*}
$$
Taking the square root and using ##p = \hbar k## will give you your equation.

In your third line; I do not see how you get the ##-2k^2 cos \alpha## term
 
JD_PM said:
In your third line; I do not see how you get the ##-2k^2 cos \alpha## term
$$
\begin{align*}
\mathbf{k}_i \cdot \mathbf{k}_f &= | \mathbf{k}_i | |\mathbf{k}_f| \cos \alpha \\
&= k^2 \cos \alpha
\end{align*}
$$
where ##\alpha## is the angle between ##\mathbf{k}_i## and ##\mathbf{k}_f## (or ##\mathbf{p}_i## and ##\mathbf{p}_f##).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: JD_PM
DrClaude said:
$$
\begin{align*}
\mathbf{k}_i \cdot \mathbf{k}_f &= | \mathbf{k}_i | |\mathbf{k}_f| \cos \alpha \\
&= k^2 \cos \alpha
\end{align*}
$$
where ##\alpha## is the angle between ##\mathbf{k}_i## and ##\mathbf{k}_f## (or ##\mathbf{p}_i## and ##\mathbf{p}_f##).
It is the dot product definition! My bad, thanks DrClaude.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Klystron

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K