Claude Dechales anti-Copernican arguments question

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    Coriolis effect
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Claude Dechales' anti-Copernican arguments related to the Coriolis effect, as presented in a 2017 article in Physics Today. Participants explore the validity of Dechales' claims and the implications of the Coriolis effect in both historical and contemporary contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Historical
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references an article claiming that Dechales described the Coriolis effect before Coriolis, questioning the validity of Dechales' arguments.
  • Another participant acknowledges that Dechales' arguments are sound but points out that his conclusion relies on the unobservability of the effect, raising questions about Dechales' expectations and experimental attempts.
  • A participant asserts that the Coriolis effect is a geometrical effect observable in weather patterns, although it requires vast distances to be noticeable.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of experiments demonstrating the Coriolis effect, particularly in relation to small-scale phenomena like water draining in a sink.
  • There is a discussion about whether Dechales conducted experiments or dismissed the effect based on a lack of observation, with speculation about his motivations as a Jesuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the Coriolis effect is real and observable in various contexts, but there is no consensus on the implications of Dechales' arguments or the historical context of his claims.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the specifics of Dechales' experiments and the conditions under which the Coriolis effect can be observed, highlighting potential limitations in the historical understanding of the effect.

theo1234901
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in the july 2017 edition of Physics today, there's an article on "Early Description of Coriolis Effect" which show Claude Dechales anti-copernican argument have shown the coriolis effect before Coriolis state the coriolis effect.

LINK:
http://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/PT.3.3610

My problem with this article is I can't figure it out why this arguments is wrong. Does this effect really happens in real life or are there something I'm missing?
 
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His arguments are sound, but his conclusion rests on the statement that the effect has not been observed. Who knows what he tried, or what his expectations of the magnitude were. It isn't the most easily demonstrated effect, and Foucaults Pendulum came about much later.
 
rumborak said:
His arguments are sound, but his conclusion rests on the statement that the effect has not been observed. Who knows what he tried, or what his expectations of the magnitude were. It isn't the most easily demonstrated effect, and Foucaults Pendulum came about much later.
So what you are saying we don have any clue that this is true?
 
Coriolis is a 'geometrical effect' that can be said to have the same effect as a force. It is alive and well and can be observed in the fact that weather systems all produce winds that go in curves. You need vast distances for the Coriolis Effect to be noticeable.
People talk about the escaping bath water down the plughole following clockwise or anticlockwise spirals, depending on which hemisphere you're in but it's not a big enough effect to overcome the errors of any experiment that's been done.
 
theo1234901 said:
So what you are saying we don have any clue that this is true?
Not sure what part you think wouldn't be true. As sophiecentaur says, the Coriolis effect obviously is real and happening; it can be observed every day in numerous things.

Maybe you're confused what the article is saying. All the article shows is that there was an individual who predicted the existence of the Coriolis effect long before Coriolis himself. However, in a historical oddity he actually tried to use it to *disprove* that the Earth is rotating. Whether he actually made any experiments, or whether he stopped at a quick "I can't see it, so it's not happening" thought, hard to tell. The guy was a Jesuit, so he may have been a bit quick to accept any counter argument against Copernicus.
 

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