Closure of a Subgroup of GL(2,C)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the closure of a subgroup of the group of complex 2x2 invertible matrices, specifically the subgroup defined by matrices of the form $$\begin{pmatrix}e^{it} & 0 \\ 0 & e^{iat}\end{pmatrix}$$ where $$a$$ is an irrational number. Participants explore the mathematical concepts of closure in topology and the implications for the subgroup $$G$$ and its closure $$\bar{G}$$.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to start proving that $$\bar{G}$$ is as stated, indicating a lack of confidence in their topology knowledge.
  • Another participant suggests that to show $$\bar{G}$$ includes all elements that can be approximated by elements of $$G$$, one must consider the periodic nature of the entries in the matrices and how to choose integers $$n$$ and $$m$$ to satisfy certain conditions.
  • A participant discusses the concept of closure, stating that it includes the set itself and its boundary, and emphasizes the need to check that $$\bar{G}$$ is closed.
  • Further elaboration on the conditions needed to approximate elements in $$\bar{G}$$ is provided, focusing on finding integers $$m$$ and $$n$$ such that a specific relationship holds.
  • One participant acknowledges their understanding of the proof but expresses uncertainty about the overall solution, indicating a desire to study foundational topics in mathematics to better grasp the rigor required.
  • Another participant shares their motivation for studying group theory, linking it to their interest in the mathematical properties of the Lorentz Group encountered in their general relativity course.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to explore the closure of the subgroup and the mathematical reasoning involved, but there is no consensus on the specific steps or methods to prove the closure, reflecting varying levels of understanding and confidence in the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express a need for further study in topology, set theory, and number theory, indicating that their current knowledge may not fully support the rigorous demands of the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in group theory, topology, and the mathematical foundations of physics may find this discussion relevant, particularly those looking to understand the closure of subgroups in matrix groups.

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Let $$GL(2;\mathbb{C})$$ be the complex 2x2 invertible matrices group. Let $$a$$ be an irrational number and $$G$$ be the following subgroup

$$G=\Big\{ \begin{pmatrix}e^{it} & 0 \\
0 & e^{iat}
\end{pmatrix} \Big| t \in \mathbb{R} \Big\}$$

I have to show that the closure of the set $$G$$ is
$$\bar{G}=\Big\{ \begin{pmatrix}e^{it} & 0 \\
0 & e^{is}
\end{pmatrix} \Big| t \in \mathbb{R}, s \in \mathbb{R} \Big\}$$

I don't know even how to start. I'm afraid my topolgy knowledge needs serious improvement, but I didn't think it was necessary since I picked up a Group Theory book (Lie Groups, Lie Algebras and their representations: An elementary introduction by Brian C Hall). It sad because the books looks fascinating​
 
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Ruun said:
Let $$GL(2;\mathbb{C})$$ be the complex 2x2 invertible matrices group. Let $$a$$ be an irrational number and $$G$$ be the following subgroup

$$G=\Big\{ \begin{pmatrix}e^{it} & 0 \\
0 & e^{iat}
\end{pmatrix} \Big| t \in \mathbb{R} \Big\}$$

I have to show that the closure of the set $$G$$ is
$$\bar{G}=\Big\{ \begin{pmatrix}e^{it} & 0 \\
0 & e^{is}
\end{pmatrix} \Big| t \in \mathbb{R}, s \in \mathbb{R} \Big\}$$

I don't know even how to start. I'm afraid my topolgy knowledge needs serious improvement, but I didn't think it was necessary since I picked up a Group Theory book (Lie Groups, Lie Algebras and their representations: An elementary introduction by Brian C Hall). It sad because the books looks fascinating​
Obviously $G \subseteq \bar{G}$, so you need to show that every element in $\bar{G}$ can be approximated by an element of $G$. The elements $\begin{bmatrix}e^{it} & 0 \\ 0 & e^{iat}\end{bmatrix}$ and $\begin{bmatrix}e^{it} & 0 \\ 0 & e^{is}\end{bmatrix}$ have the same entry $e^{it}$ in the top left corner, and the value of this element is unchanged if we replace $t$ by $t+2n\pi$. Also, the value of $e^{is}$ is unchanged if we replace $s$ by $s+2m\pi$. So can you choose $n$ and $m$ in such a way that $a(t+2n\pi)$ is close to $s+2m\pi$?

Hint: To do that, use Hurwitz's theorem.
 
Last edited:
So you use that the closure of a set is itself plus its boundary? Let me explain it myself to see if I'm understanding this: Because $$G \subseteq \bar{G}$$ we only need to compute the boundary part.

Now we want to see if the number $$\frac{a(t+2\pi n)}{s+2\pi m } << 1$$ but I can't put that expression in the form $$\left| \xi-\frac{p}{q} \right|$$ to use the theorem
 
Ruun said:
So you use that the closure of a set is itself plus its boundary? Let me explain it myself to see if I'm understanding this: Because $$G \subseteq \bar{G}$$ we only need to compute the boundary part.
One way to show that a set $B$ is the closure of a subset $A$ is to check that (i) every point of $B$ is a limit of a sequence in $A$ (and is therefore in either $A$ or the boundary of $A$), and (ii) $B$ is closed. In my previous comment I suggested that you should prove (i) but I neglected to say that you should also check that the set $\bar{G}$ is closed.

Ruun said:
Now we want to see if the number $$\frac{a(t+2\pi n)}{s+2\pi m } << 1$$ but I can't put that expression in the form $$\left| \xi-\frac{p}{q} \right|$$ to use the theorem
Look at the difference rather than the quotient. You want to find $m,\,n$ such that $a(t+2\pi n) \approx s+2\pi m$, or in other words $s-at \approx 2\pi(an-m).$ Now notice that if $\left|a-\frac mn\right| < \frac1{n^2}$ then $|an-m| < \frac1n.$
 
Last edited:
I will think about your post and reply here later, thank you very much.
 
I understand your proof and the closure of $$\bar{G}$$ follows quite easily just by multiplying the matrices, however I'm not quite convinced on the solution of this exercise. I'm quite grateful on your help, but I think I need to study some prerequisites of this book and in mathematics in general, say set theory, topology and even some number theory. My math knowledge comes from physics, so I'm not very familiar to the level of rigor required, this is somethin I want to put some effort into too.

I wanted to study group theory because in my general relativity course we were studing the mathematical properties of the Lorentz Group, and I found all of that fascinating.
 

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