Coffee cup, bomb calorimeter: Open, closed, or isolated?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classification of a coffee cup and a bomb calorimeter as open, closed, or isolated systems. Participants explore the implications of evaporation and the definitions of these system types, examining whether the coffee cup can be considered a closed system and the nature of the bomb calorimeter in relation to its surroundings.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a coffee cup is typically considered a closed system, noting the potential impact of evaporating steam or hot coffee on this classification.
  • Another participant suggests that the steam is often deemed insignificant, which may allow the coffee cup to be classified as a closed system, but expresses uncertainty.
  • A participant asks if a bomb calorimeter is an isolated system and whether the water inside is considered part of the surroundings.
  • Some participants emphasize the need to state definitions and properties of open, closed, and isolated systems to apply them correctly to the examples provided.
  • There is a suggestion that the question may be a common pre-lab quiz question aimed at assessing understanding of system classifications.
  • One participant humorously points out the practical aspect of drinking coffee if the cup is a closed system, implying a contradiction in the classification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the classification of the coffee cup and bomb calorimeter, with multiple competing views and interpretations of the definitions of system types remaining evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for clear definitions and properties of system types, indicating that the discussion may be limited by assumptions about these definitions and the context in which they are applied.

gauss44
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Is a coffee cup usually considered to be a closed system? Why or why not? Does it matter that steam or hot coffee may be evaporating? (I think the steam is usually considered to be an insignificant amount of matter, allowing classification to be a closed system, but am unsure.)

Is a bomb calorimeter an isolated system? Why or why not? Is the water inside of a bomb calorimeter generally considered to be part of the "surroundings?" (I think not, just checking.)

(I tried looking this up online and cannot find any definitive answer or actual examples that were adequately helpful.)
 
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This has the sound of homework: state the definitions/properties of open, closed, and isolated systems; apply those definitions/properties to the systems you've described.
 
gauss44 said:
I guess you could project that onto any question in this forum. I sense a troll at work.
It's a very common pre-lab quiz question intended to determine whether you know the definitions of open, closed, and isolated systems.

If you don't know the definitions/properties/differences of open, close, and isolated systems, this turns into an endless game of "Well if that's "blank," then what's this?"

State them, apply them to each, and I'll be more than happy to tell you whether you've done so correctly, or explain to you where you've done so incorrectly, and what is incorrect.
 
If a coffee cup is a closed system, how are you supposed to drink the coffee? You don't need to go online to find the answer to this question.
 
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