Collisions: Elastic vs inelastic

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of collisions, specifically comparing elastic and inelastic collisions in the context of a bullet striking a target. Participants explore the implications of conservation of momentum, energy transfer, and the effects of deformation during the collision. The scope includes theoretical considerations, practical applications, and the complexities involved in real-world scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario involving a bullet and a metal sphere, questioning how to calculate the aerial friction affecting the bullet's velocity before impact.
  • Another participant notes that the study of the bullet's flight falls under external ballistics, while the impact is studied in terminal ballistics, indicating the complexity of the topic.
  • There is a discussion about the conservation of momentum, with a participant asserting that momentum should be conserved regardless of the collision type.
  • Participants mention the coefficient of restitution as a factor in determining how much energy the sphere gains from the bullet's impact.
  • One participant challenges the application of Hooke's law to the deformation of the bullet and sphere, suggesting that it does not apply once yield strength is reached.
  • Another participant corrects the previous mention of Stokes' law, stating it is only relevant for very slow fluid flow, and provides alternative resources for understanding drag in physics.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about their understanding, acknowledging a mistake regarding the laminar flow clause.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of certain physical laws and principles, particularly regarding the deformation of materials and the conditions under which momentum conservation applies. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the bullet's shape and the neglect of external factors such as wind. The discussion also highlights the complexity of applying theoretical principles to real-world scenarios, particularly in terms of energy transformation and material behavior during collisions.

lendav_rott
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So there are a bunch of assignments in physics built on the conservation of momentum law where a bullet of some mass, hits a target of some mass, neglecting friction find the velocity at which the target starts moving. That is all very simple in case of an inelastic collision, all the energy of the bullet is transformed to the target+bullet mass, but what happens when it's a real scenario?

Assuming we know the mass of the bullet mb and the power behind the rifle - the bullet gains an initial velocity of vinitial. The target is, say, a metal sphere of mass ms at a distance of 200m - How do we calculate the aerial friction that slows down the bullet, assuming there is no wind to considerably change its direction?

At last the bullet hits the target at a velocity of vfinal. How much energy does the sphere exactly gain?
The bullet hits the sphere and bounces back,there is likely a dent in the sphere and the bullet is deformed, therefore some of the kinetic energy is transformed into mechanical energy and heat. Since the bullet bounces back I would assume it has something to do with Hooke's law, where the surface of the sphere is acting like a spring. How much energy is consumed by deformation and the spring? Is there a way to know how much of the energy the sphere "gets to use"? To what extent can we use the conservation of momentum in this scenario? What are all the elements we have to consider?
 
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The flight of the bullet is studied in external ballistics. What happens when the bullet hits the target is studied in terminal ballistics. Things get hairy fairly quickly as soon as you start looking at the details.
 
lendav_rott said:
So there are a bunch of assignments in physics built on the conservation of momentum law where a bullet of some mass, hits a target of some mass, neglecting friction find the velocity at which the target starts moving. That is all very simple in case of an inelastic collision, all the energy of the bullet is transformed to the target+bullet mass, but what happens when it's a real scenario?

Assuming we know the mass of the bullet mb and the power behind the rifle - the bullet gains an initial velocity of vinitial. The target is, say, a metal sphere of mass ms at a distance of 200m - How do we calculate the aerial friction that slows down the bullet, assuming there is no wind to considerably change its direction?
Assuming bullet's spherical: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes'_law
At last the bullet hits the target at a velocity of vfinal. How much energy does the sphere exactly gain?
Depends on coefficient of restitution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_restitution
The bullet hits the sphere and bounces back,there is likely a dent in the sphere and the bullet is deformed, therefore some of the kinetic energy is transformed into mechanical energy and heat. Since the bullet bounces back I would assume it has something to do with Hooke's law, where the surface of the sphere is acting like a spring. How much energy is consumed by deformation and the spring?
Hooke's law doesn't apply after you reach yield strength:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress–strain_curve
After which elastic deformation gives way to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_deformation#Plastic_deformation
Is there a way to know how much of the energy the sphere "gets to use"?
:confused:
KE should be given by coefficient of restitution, if that's what you mean.
To what extent can we use the conservation of momentum in this scenario? What are all the elements we have to consider?
Momentum should be conserved regardless of the type of collision.
 
Forgot about the laminar flow clause... thanks for the correction;
I seem to be ticking with the IQ of a tick today...
 

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