Computing vacuum expectation values

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around computing vacuum expectation values as presented in Mark Srednicki's text, specifically focusing on the interpretation and derivation of terms in equation 210 on page 69. Participants are examining the application of derivatives in the context of functional integrals and the implications of the chain and product rules in this computation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the origin of the second term in the second line of equation 210, seeking clarification on its derivation.
  • Another participant suggests that the second term arises from applying the chain rule and product rule, treating the functional derivative as an ordinary derivative.
  • A participant points out a potential typo in the first line of equation 210, indicating that a factor of 1/Z[J=0] should be included, which cancels out when expressed in terms of W.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the correct order of applying derivatives and emphasizes that the setting of J=0 should occur only after all derivatives have been applied.
  • A later reply indicates that the participant has resolved their confusion regarding the computation process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of the chain and product rules, but there is some uncertainty regarding the correct order of operations in the computation. The discussion reflects differing interpretations of the steps involved in deriving the terms in equation 210.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the computation relies on specific definitions and assumptions from earlier equations in the text, which may not be fully detailed in the discussion. There is also mention of a typo that could affect understanding.

kexue
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I have small question computing vacuum expectation values here http://www.cns.gatech.edu/FieldTheory/extras/SrednickiQFT03.pdf" from Mark Srednicki.

My problem is with equation 210 on the pdf page 69. In the second line of 210, where does the second term come from?

Z(J) and W(J) are defined one page 62-63 with equations 196 and 197, and the computation for the vacuum expectation value of a single field is given in 198, which makes sense to me.

But not the second term in the second line of 210!

thank you
 
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it's just the chain rule and the product rule. treat [itex]\delta_i[/itex] as an ordinary derivative and work it out.

There is one small typo: in the first line there should be a 1/Z[J=0]. This then cancels when you write it in terms of W.
 


Thanks Blechman!
 


Ok, bit ashamed to come back, but ..

So I want to compute (d/dJ_1)(d/dJ_2)exp(iW(J(1,2))

(d/dJ_1)(d/dJ_2)exp(iW(J(1,2)) = (d/dJ_1)((d/dJ_2)iW(J(1,2)exp(iW(J(1,2)) (chain rule)

since at the end we set J=0 and W(0)=0 defined, exp(iW(J(0))=1, exp(iW(J(1,2)) drops out

so I got (d/dJ_1)((d/dJ_2)iW(J(1,2)

now I should apply the product rule to get to the second line of 210, but sadly I can't see how
 


kexue said:
Ok, bit ashamed to come back, but ..

So I want to compute (d/dJ_1)(d/dJ_2)exp(iW(J(1,2))

(d/dJ_1)(d/dJ_2)exp(iW(J(1,2)) = (d/dJ_1)((d/dJ_2)iW(J(1,2)exp(iW(J(1,2)) (chain rule)

since at the end we set J=0 and W(0)=0 defined, exp(iW(J(0))=1, exp(iW(J(1,2)) drops out
You may only do that at the very end of the calculation (after having applied all derivatives). Apply the derivative wrt J_1 on everything and *then* set J=0. You will get his expression.
 


Now got it!

Thanks nrqed, thanks blechman!
 

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