Conditional Probability at it's finest

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the probability Pn,m that candidate A is always in the lead during a vote count, given that candidate A receives n votes and candidate B receives m votes, with n greater than m. The focus is on understanding the recursive relationships and the derivation of specific cases for Pn,m, particularly for m=1 and m=2.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents the initial problem and expresses confusion regarding specific steps in the solution involving the recursive formula for Pn,m.
  • Post 2 identifies the problem as a type of 'random walk' and mentions that Pn,m is a steady state probability, suggesting that understanding the first expression will clarify the elimination of terms.
  • Post 3 confirms that the problem is homework-related but notes it has been submitted and graded, inviting further discussion.
  • Post 4 elaborates on the recursive relationship, explaining how specific cases for Pn,1 and Pn,2 are derived, including the reasoning behind the values of Pn,0 and P1,1.
  • Post 4 also proposes a direct expression for Pn,1 and discusses the implications of the recursive relationship, suggesting a method for verification through induction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the recursive relationships and specific calculations. There is no consensus on the clarity of the solution, as some participants seek further explanation while others provide insights into the derivation process.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for a solid understanding of difference equations and the implications of boundary conditions in the context of the problem. The discussion highlights the complexity of the recursive relationships without resolving all uncertainties.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners interested in probability theory, particularly in the context of voting systems and recursive probability calculations.

Somefantastik
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In an election, candidate A receives n votes and candidate B receives m votes, where n>m. Assume that in the count of the votes all possible orderings of the n+m votes are equally likely. Let Pn,m denote the probability that from the first vote on A is always in the lead. Find Pn,m.

[solution]
Pn,m = P(A gets n votes, B gets m votes | last vote to A)*(n/n+m) + P(A gets n votes, B gets m votes | last vote to B) * (m/m+n)

= Pn-1,m * (n/n+m) + Pn,m-1*(m/m+n)

From the formula, we have

Pn,1 = Pn-1,1 *(n/n+1) + Pn,0*(1/n+1) = (n/n+1)*Pn-1,1 + 1/(n+1)
P1,1 = 0

=> Pn,1 = (n-1)/(n+1)

and

Pn,2 = Pn-1,2*(n/n+2) + Pn,1*(2/2+n) = Pn-1,2*(n/n+2) + 2*(n-1)/(n+2)
P2,2 = 0

==> Pn,2 = (n-2)/(n+2)

Please explain this solution to me. The stuff in red is where I got lost.
 
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This is a common method for 'random walk' type problems which are solved by difference equations. Pn,m is called 'steady state probability' and the corresponding equation is called ballance equation of transition. If you understand the first expression of Pn,m then it will not be difficult to understand how Pn-1,m and Pn,m-1 are eleminated. Go through the method of solving difference equations in any textbook. Hope this is not a homework.
 
Last edited:
Yes it's a homework but it has already been turned in and graded. Any more responses are appreciated.
 
Somefantastik said:
Pn,m = Pn-1,m * (n/n+m) + Pn,m-1*(m/m+n)
Since this wasn't in red I assume you have no problem with this.

From the formula, we have
Pn,1 = Pn-1,1 *(n/n+1) + Pn,0*(1/n+1) = (n/n+1)*Pn-1,1 + 1/(n+1)
The first part of this statement results directly from substituting m=1 into the generic recursive relationship. If candidate B does not receive any votes then candidate A will always be in front. Thus Pn,0=1 for all n>0. The latter equality arises from this fact.
From this, the latter equality need this to make the latter part of the above statement.
P1,1 = 0
If candidate B receives as many or more votes than candidate A there will be some point at which candidate A is not in front. Thus Pn,m=0 for all n<=m.
=> Pn,1 = (n-1)/(n+1)
The recursive relationship suggests there might be a direct expression of the form
Pn,1 = f(n)/(n+1). Using this form in the recursive relationship,
f(n)/(n+1) = (n/(n+1))*(f(n-1)/n) + 1/(n+1)
from which
f(n) = f(n-1) + 1
In other words, f(n) = n+k where k is some constant. Since P1,1=0, f(1)=0 and k=-1, or
Pn,1 = (n-1)/(n+1)

You can verify this with recursion. The expression is obviously correct for n=1. Assuming its correct for n-1, you should be able to prove it is true for n.

The case m=2 is similar.
 

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