Confusion over Thermodynamic process (heat and termperature)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermodynamic processes in the Carnot and Rankine cycles, specifically addressing the behavior of temperature and heat transfer during phase changes as represented in T-s diagrams. Participants explore the implications of latent heat and sensible heat in these cycles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about why temperature does not change during the heat extraction and addition processes in the Carnot and Rankine cycles, despite the addition of heat.
  • Another participant questions the effect of adding heat to water at 100°C and atmospheric pressure, implying that temperature would increase.
  • Some participants propose that the temperature remains constant during heat transfer due to phase changes, specifically referencing latent heat as the mechanism for this behavior.
  • There is a mention that while the Carnot cycle shows horizontal lines in the T-s diagram, the Rankine cycle includes a sensible heat gain component during process 4-1, suggesting a difference in behavior between the two cycles.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of superheating in modified Rankine cycles, indicating that there can be temperature increases after complete evaporation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are competing views regarding the behavior of temperature in the context of latent and sensible heat in the Carnot and Rankine cycles.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about phase changes and the definitions of latent and sensible heat may not be fully articulated, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the specific conditions under which these processes occur.

skaboy607
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Hi

I have been learning about the Carnot and Rankine Cycles, where process 4-1 is through a evaporator, process 1-2 a turbine, 2-3 a condensor and 3-4 a compressor. Sketching this on a T-s diagram gives straight horizontal lines for processes 4-1 and 2-3. This is where the heat is extracted and put in, so I don't understand how temperature does not increase and decrease. i.e, you add heat in the form of flame to water and its temperature increases. Probably simple but it has been driving me crazy!

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks
 
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If the water is at 100 C and atmospheric pressure and you add a flame to it, what happens to the temperature?
 
You are neglecting the phase change of the water. The heat being put into and removed from the fluid is in the form of latent heat. So the temperature remains constant but the fluid changes phase. Since you have heat transfer at a temperature, you have entropy creation or removal, hence the strait horizontal line.
 
skaboy607 said:
Sketching this on a T-s diagram gives straight horizontal lines for processes 4-1 and 2-3.

does so for carnot cycle, doesmt for rankine cycle. Rankine cycle also has a sensible heat gain part in the process 4-1(considering 4 is the pump outlet). If you have seen a modified rankine cycle, it has a sensible heat gain after the total evaporation(& its called superheat)
 

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