Conservation of angular momentum (central force)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of angular momentum in the context of central force problems, particularly focusing on the implications of quantum mechanics on the certainty of angular momentum components and their relationship to the uncertainty principle.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that in a central force problem, angular momentum is conserved, but questions the certainty of its direction due to the uncertainty principle.
  • Another participant notes that since Lx and Ly do not commute, it is impossible to have definite values for both simultaneously, implying uncertainty in the direction of angular momentum.
  • There is a suggestion that while angular momentum is conserved, its direction may be considered uncertain, leading to the question of whether this implies that the direction is changing constantly.
  • A later reply proposes that it is more accurate to say that angular momentum does not have a definite direction until measured, though this statement is also acknowledged as potentially misleading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the direction of angular momentum is uncertain in quantum mechanics, but there is no consensus on whether this uncertainty implies that the direction is constantly changing. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of this uncertainty on the conservation of angular momentum.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the interplay between classical and quantum mechanics regarding angular momentum, highlighting the differences in how conservation is understood in each framework. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the interpretation of angular momentum in quantum mechanics and its measurement.

HAMJOOP
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In a central force problem,
angular momentum is conserved.
we quantized one of the component of L, say Lz.
Also, we quantized the angular momentum, L = √l(l+1)h_bar
If we know Lx and Ly without uncertainty,
then we know the direction of L.

Hence we know the motion of the particle is confined in a plane(let say x-y plane).
Then we know exactly the position in z direction, which contradicts the uncertainty principle.Hence, we can't know Lx and Ly without uncertainty.

Does that mean the direction of the angular momentum is uncertain ?
So, can we say angular momentum is conserved ?
One more Thing (particle in a box)
Can I say E = (p^2 /2m) ?
coz E is quantized, so quantization of p violates the uncertainty principle.
What's wrong?
 
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HAMJOOP said:
Hence, we can't know Lx and Ly without uncertainty.

You can already get this from the fact that Lx and Ly don't commute, so it's impossible to have a state with definite values of both Lx and Ly.

HAMJOOP said:
Does that mean the direction of the angular momentum is uncertain ?

Yes.

HAMJOOP said:
So, can we say angular momentum is conserved ?

Yes. Lx, Ly, and Lz are all conserved quantities. In QM this essentially means that the probability distribution of the possible values of Lx (say) does not change with time.
 
In classical mechanics, we say angular momentum is conserved when its magnitude and direction are constant for all time.

But in quantum mechanics, the direction of angular momentum is uncertain.
So, can I say its direction is changing all the time ??
 
HAMJOOP said:
But in quantum mechanics, the direction of angular momentum is uncertain.
So, can I say its direction is changing all the time ??

You can say it, but that doesn't make it right :smile:

It would be better to say that it doesn't have a direction until you've measured it (that's not really right either, but it's much less likely to lead you astray when you come to some of the more difficult problems of interpreting QM. You might want to take a look at this web page for more background).
 

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