Conservation of Energy and ball problem

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving the conservation of energy and momentum in a perfectly elastic collision between two balls. The original poster presents a scenario where Ball 1 collides with Ball 2, which is initially at rest, and seeks to determine the speed of Ball 2 if the mass of Ball 1 is doubled.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationships between the masses and speeds of the balls using conservation laws. Some question the necessity of knowing the mass of either ball to find the solution, while others suggest using the given speeds to derive the mass ratio.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the problem with various approaches being discussed. Some participants have offered hints and algebraic manipulations to help clarify the relationships between the variables involved. However, there is no explicit consensus on the final outcome or method to solve the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the lack of specific mass values for the balls, which complicates the analysis. Additionally, there is a discussion about the implications of assuming the masses are identical versus different, which affects the interpretation of the results.

cdbowman42
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1.Ball 1 with an initial speed of 14 m/s has a perfectly elastic collision with Ball 2 that is initially at rest. Afterward, the speed of Ball 2 is 21 m/s. What will be the speed of Ball 2 if the mass of Ball 1 is doubled.



2. conservation of momentum: m1(v1i)=m1(v1f)+m2(v2f)

conservation of energy:.5m1(v1i)2=.5m1(v1f)2+.5m2(v2f)2

v1f=v1i(m1-m2)/(m1+m2)

v2f=v1i(2m1)/(m1+m2)



3. I'm not sure where to even begin because it seems I would need to know the mass of either ball to find the solution.
 
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The problem provides the initial speed of ball 1 and the final speed of ball 2, you should be able to use those numbers to find the ratio of the ball's masses m2/m1. Once you find this quantity, you have enough information to determine the final speed of ball 2 if m1 doubles.

Hint: Solve for a=m2/m1 by creating ratios:
[tex] b = \frac{v_{2f}}{v_{1i}} = \frac{2m_1}{m_1+m_2} = \frac{2}{1+a}[/tex]
where I'm using a and b to replace the ratio quantities. Now you have a very simple algebraic equation.
 
p1+p2=p1'+p2'
p2 = m2v2 = 0 (v=0)
Elastic means that the balls don't stick so p1' = 0 (v=0, again).

so you're left with p1=p2'
m1v1 = m2'v2'

the m's are proportional so doubling m1 will double m2 which means ? (you answer)
 
Last edited:
iRaid said:
p1+p2=p1'+p2'
p2 = m2v2 = 0 (v=0)
Elastic means that the balls don't stick so p1' = 0 (v=0, again).

so you're left with p1=p2'
m1v1 = m2'v2'

Elastic does mean that the balls don't stick, however your analysis presupposes that the masses are identical. If they are not identical, then p1' is not zero. In fact, just by looking at the speeds given, you should be able to determine that m1 is a bit more massive than m2 (before you double the mass of m1).
 

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