Conservation of momentum in Car Vs. Wall

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of momentum in the context of a car crashing into a solid wall. Participants explore the implications of momentum conservation in this scenario, considering various factors such as external forces and energy transfer. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications related to momentum and energy in collisions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how momentum is conserved when a car crashes into a wall, suggesting that the car should either move through the wall or the wall should move.
  • Another participant argues that momentum is not conserved in the simplified scenario because it primarily transfers into the air and wall as heat and sound, and suggests considering the entire Earth and atmosphere for conservation.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that conservation of momentum applies to isolated systems and notes that the car-wall system is subject to a net external force, which affects overall momentum during the collision.
  • One participant reiterates the idea that momentum is not conserved due to oversimplification, stating that energy will convert to heat and sound, with most momentum moving the Earth slightly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conservation of momentum in this scenario, with no consensus reached. Some argue that momentum is conserved when considering the broader system, while others maintain that it is not conserved due to external forces and energy transformations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions made about the system, particularly regarding the treatment of external forces and the definitions of momentum and energy conservation in collisions.

mahela007
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If a car crashes into a solid unbreakable wall, how is momentum conserved (I know it must be). To me, it seems that the car will just "stop" and the wall will not move. If momentum is to be conserved, the car should either move through the wall, (which doesn't happen) or the wall should move away (this doesn't happen either).
 
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Momentum is not conserved in this problem because of the oversimplification. The momentum will mostly transfer into the air and wall as heat and sound. So, it is conserved, you just need to take the entire Earth and it's atmosphere as well.
 
The conservation of momentum applies to an isolated system. If your system is subject to some non-negligible net external force then its overall momentum will change by Newton's second law.

In this case the car-wall system is acted on by a net external force (the contact force of the wall with the ground). That force becomes very large during the collision. If the force were not there (e.g. wall on slippery ice) then the wall would indeed move.
 
Monocles said:
Momentum is not conserved in this problem because of the oversimplification. The momentum will mostly transfer into the air and wall as heat and sound. So, it is conserved, you just need to take the entire Earth and it's atmosphere as well.

you're somewhat confused with conservation of energy. The engergy will end up as heat (mostly heating the car itself) and sound. Almost all of the momentum will end moving the Earth by a tiny bit.
 

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