Constants and multiverse possibilities

[leonstavros]

I have to say, just because one claims a possibility, doesn't make it logically possible. We can say there is the possibility that a unicorn is orbiting Earth, but it is highly unlikely. The complaint I have with even entertaining the idea of an intelligent architect or intelligent space-time is that both these arguments are not even close to being valid. For these to even be considered there needs to be at least some form of evidence with a direct trail pointing to whomever/whatever did it, both of which have neither. All bread crumbs thus far lead back to the BB, so that's what did it.

When people impart the peculiarities of fine tuning to being designed I have to ask, aside from the cuteness of it, how does it follow that it has been designed? Even worse, how does that imply self maintenence? How can a photon be considered a system which needs repair? These constants do not require repair because they are not a mechanical process in the traditional sense. Gravity is the curvature of space-time in the presence of matter, the mass of that matter is the determinant for how much it will curve, and that curvature causes a force proportional to the mass, it doesn't need to be rejuvinated. The same goes for other constants. They are merely to get our predictions to match those of observation, but this does not take away from the theories & laws which are based upon them.

As far as QM goes first and foremost, no information can be transferred via entanglement, as of yet. Secondly if it were possible, which it is not as of yet, in order to get atoms entangled, they must be "vibrated" at just the right frequencies, only then will they be entangled. This needs to be done for evey atom...and even after that pain staking process, you're not getting information through there. Space-time IS the creator, to some extent, although the only thing space-time had to do with it, was provide the ability for an event to occur somewhere at some time. That is my brief understanding of QM so hopefully the others can chime in on the virtual particles. All I know is they exist but the in's and out's of it are beyond me at this level.

Joe

I have been looking into Fred Hoyles idea of a steady state universe, he also believed that space-time was the creator of matter. His theory was just as believable as the BB until the back-round radiation study "proved" him wrong. Supposedly the "noise" that was detected is the end result of the "ringing" from the original big bang but could the back-round noise also be a sum of quantum events formed by a foaming space-time?Has anybody done a study to see whether this back-round microwave radiation is decaying further?If the BMR is steady that would mean a steady state universe.

Space-time is also a conductor of light, something in the fabric allows a photon to accelerate to the speed of light and then something regulates that speed to a constant. Space-time also does all kinds of contortions to maintain the illusion to an observer that the speed of light is constant no matter how fast the observer is moving. It is very believable that the universe was designed for an observer.

 

[Chalnoth]

If the BMR is steady that would mean a steady state universe.

Studies of how galaxies change with redshift have already conclusively disproven a steady state universe. Never mind simple thermodynamic arguments that make any such thing ridiculous on its face.

Space-time is also a conductor of light, something in the fabric allows a photon to accelerate to the speed of light and then something regulates that speed to a constant. Space-time also does all kinds of contortions to maintain the illusion to an observer that the speed of light is constant no matter how fast the observer is moving.

Huh? The speed of light is nothing more and nothing less than a parameter that relates the units of space to the units of time. Your statement here makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[leonstavros]

Studies of how galaxies change with redshift have already conclusively disproven a steady state universe. Never mind simple thermodynamic arguments that make any such thing ridiculous on its face.
Huh? The speed of light is nothing more and nothing less than a parameter that relates the units of space to the units of time. Your statement here makes no sense whatsoever.

The red shift argument was handled by Hoyle. He said that space-time generated inflationary pressure which caused the galaxies to recede from us thus the red shift.

Light propagation was believed to have required an aether as a medium until the Michelson-Morly experiments could not find any change in propagation no matter which direction the light was measured but then someone came with the explanation that the instruments also changed with the direction if travel therefore offset any changes in light propagation. The question of an aether is still an unresolved matter. Nowadays the aether is the space-time continuum.

 

[Chalnoth]

The red shift argument was handled by Hoyle. He said that space-time generated inflationary pressure which caused the galaxies to recede from us thus the red shift.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying that galaxies we see nearby are very different in character from galaxies we see at, for instance, z=6. This can only be adequately explained by suggesting that the population of galaxies has varied in time, which is impossible in a steady state universe.

Light propagation was believed to have required an aether as a medium until the Michelson-Morly experiments could not find any change in propagation no matter which direction the light was measured but then someone came with the explanation that the instruments also changed with the direction if travel therefore offset any changes in light propagation. The question of an aether is still an unresolved matter. Nowadays the aether is the space-time continuum.

What? This doesn't make any sense.

 

[leonstavros]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying that galaxies we see nearby are very different in character from galaxies we see at, for instance, z=6. This can only be adequately explained by suggesting that the population of galaxies has varied in time, which is impossible in a steady state universe.


What? This doesn't make any sense.

Steady state galaxies doesn't mean that galaxies can't evolve, quantum variations will ensure that galaxies will be different.

Can you shed some light why the speed of light is?

 

[Chalnoth]

Steady state galaxies doesn't mean that galaxies can't evolve, quantum variations will ensure that galaxies will be different.

It doesn't mean that individual galaxies can't evolve. But it does mean that galaxies can't evolve on average.

Can you shed some light why the speed of light is?

I already went into this earlier. You didn't pay any attention before, why should you now?

 

[leonstavros]

Studies of how galaxies change with redshift have already conclusively disproven a steady state universe. Never mind simple thermodynamic arguments that make any such thing ridiculous on its face.


Huh? The speed of light is nothing more and nothing less than a parameter that relates the units of space to the units of time. Your statement here makes no sense whatsoever.

You sure have a unique explanation of a photon.

 

[Chalnoth]

You sure have a unique explanation of a photon.

The speed of light has nothing directly to do with photons, except that it was with photons that we first discovered that space and time are related by a simple unit transformation. And so we still call this unit transformation the "speed of light" for what amount to historical reasons.

Photons travel at this speed because they have zero mass. Anything that has zero mass must necessarily travel at the same speed.

 

[leonstavros]

The speed of light has nothing directly to do with photons, except that it was with photons that we first discovered that space and time are related by a simple unit transformation. And so we still call this unit transformation the "speed of light" for what amount to historical reasons.

Photons travel at this speed because they have zero mass. Anything that has zero mass must necessarily travel at the same speed.

Photons=light, photons have zero mass but they use space-time for propagation,why do photons follow space-time around a strong gravitational field? Because space-time is warped and photons must use space-time for propagation. There must be a function of space-time that controls the propagation of light.

 

[Agent M27]

As I mentioned before photons bend due to the curvature of space but this isn't really a curved line, it is just a straight line in curved space. This does not point to a medium, by definition a vacuum has nothing in it. Also you're confusing how sound (pressure) waves propogate. Sound needs a medium to propogate because pressure waves actually move the particles in the medium, e.g. a sonic boom. Light waves on the other hand are a massless particle traveling in a wave function through the medium, hence no distortion or pressure change in the sound wave scenario. To my understanding any particle which has no mass requires no medium to propogate, but will propogate through a medium dependent upon its refractive index. As Chalnoth mentioned the speed is irrelevant to what a photon is, hence c has dimensions of meters and seconds, combining both space (distance) and time. Nothing more nothing less.

Also nothing against Fred Hoyle as a person but his steady state theories have long since been disproven, if not we would be using his models today inlieu of GR. As I said nothing against him, people can be wrong.

Joe

 

[Chalnoth]

To my understanding any particle which has no mass requires no medium to propogate, but will propogate through a medium dependent upon its refractive index.

Not quite. The refractive index is a purely electromagnetic phenomenon, resulting from how charged particles respond to the incoming electromagnetic wave. So, for example, massive particles can move faster through a medium with some refractive index than light. For charged particles, this causes Cherenkov Radiation.

 

[Agent M27]

Thanks for clearing me up. I was just directed to that experiment by frame dragger and I omitted it accidently. Oops. It's a very interesting experiment by the way.

Joe

 

[Chronos]

Spacetime has properties called permeability and permissivity. That is what imposes the speed limit on photons. This is a good thing. It prevents everything from happening all at once in the universe. If you are looking for deeper meaning in physics, that is a good place to start.

 

[Chalnoth]

Spacetime has properties called permeability and permissivity. That is what imposes the speed limit on photons. This is a good thing. It prevents everything from happening all at once in the universe. If you are looking for deeper meaning in physics, that is a good place to start.

Well, it's not those two quantities themselves, but rather the relationship between them that sets the speed. And it's just a dimensional consideration: the speed of light is what relates the strength of the electric force to the strength of the magnetic force.

 

[leonstavros]

Spacetime has properties called permeability and permissivity. That is what imposes the speed limit on photons. This is a good thing. It prevents everything from happening all at once in the universe. If you are looking for deeper meaning in physics, that is a good place to start.

One of the problems of an intelligent universe is communication. The universe has to communicate with itself at a faster rate then the speed of light. I proposed in a previous post that quantum entanglement might do the job. What I gather from peoples post is that quantum entanglement can not be used to communicate, further all events can not be perceived to happen at the same time. If some sort of intelligence exists and is aware of cosmic events then there must be a way that events be dimensionaly stamped (four dimensions) and perceived at a faster speed then the speed of light. Since we haven't discovered a speed that's faster than the speed of light I conclude that there isn't an intelligent entity in control.

 

[Chalnoth]

One of the problems of an intelligent universe is communication. The universe has to communicate with itself at a faster rate then the speed of light. I proposed in a previous post that quantum entanglement might do the job. What I gather from peoples post is that quantum entanglement can not be used to communicate, further all events can not be perceived to happen at the same time. If some sort of intelligence exists and is aware of cosmic events then there must be a way that events be dimensionaly stamped (four dimensions) and perceived at a faster speed then the speed of light. Since we haven't discovered a speed that's faster than the speed of light I conclude that there isn't an intelligent entity in control.

I think that's a very reasonable analysis.