Contraction of an asymmetric tensor?

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    Contraction Tensor
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the contraction of an asymmetric tensor, specifically addressing the properties of the symmetric and anti-symmetric parts of the tensor. Participants explore the implications of these properties in the context of tensor contraction, seeking clarification on why the symmetric part appears to vanish under contraction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that if a tensor \( A^{\mu\nu} \) contracts to \( a_{\mu\nu} \), the expression \( A^{\mu\nu}a_{\mu\nu}=\frac{1}{2}a_{\mu\nu}(A^{\mu\nu}-A^{\nu\mu}) \) suggests that the symmetric part should not contract to zero, raising a question about the validity of this conclusion.
  • Another participant points out that the notes contain an error regarding the notation, suggesting that the correct expression involves \( A^{\mu\nu} \) instead of \( B^{\nu\mu} \), but does not clarify the implications of this correction on the original question.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the anti-symmetric property of \( a^{\mu\nu} \), where \( a^{\mu\nu} = -a^{\nu\mu} \), and its relevance to the contraction process.
  • Participants express uncertainty about which specific part of the original notes is inaccurate, indicating a lack of clarity on the definitions and implications of the tensor properties discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reasons why the symmetric part of the tensor contracts to zero. There is disagreement regarding the accuracy of the notes and the implications of the tensor properties, with some participants seeking clarification while others point out potential errors.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the decomposition of tensors into symmetric and anti-symmetric parts, as well as the conditions under which these properties hold true. There is an unresolved question regarding the implications of the notation used in the original notes.

Dixanadu
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Hey guys,

So in my notes I've got this statement written:

If tensor with no symmetry properties, [itex]A^{\mu\nu}[/itex], contracts to [itex]a_{\mu\nu}[/itex], we can write this as [itex]A^{\mu\nu}a_{\mu\nu}=\frac{1}{2}a_{\mu\nu}(A^{\mu\nu}-A^{\nu\mu})[/itex] as [itex]a_{\mu\nu} (A^{\mu\nu}+A^{\nu\mu}) = 0[/itex]. So I don't see how the symmetric part contracts to 0.

*Note* I do also have written that [itex]a^{\mu\nu}=-a^{\nu\mu}[/itex] but I am not sure if this is relevant.

I understand that you can decompose the tensor [itex]A^{\mu\nu}[/itex] into the sum of symmetric and anti-symmetric parts, but i don't see why the symmetric part vanishes under contraction.

If someone could explain I'd be very grateful - thank you!
 
Last edited:
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Dixanadu said:
Hey guys,

So in my notes I've got this statement written:

If tensor with no symmetry properties, [itex]A^{\mu\nu}[/itex], contracts to [itex]a_{\mu\nu}[/itex], we can write this as [itex]A^{\mu\nu}a_{\mu\nu}=\frac{1}{2}a_{\mu\nu}(A^{\mu\nu}-B^{\nu\mu})[/itex] as [itex]a_{\mu\nu} (A^{\mu\nu}+A^{\nu\mu}) = 0[/itex]. So I don't see how the symmetric part contracts to 0.

*Note* I do also have written that [itex]a^{\mu\nu}=-a^{\nu\mu}[/itex] but I am not sure if this is relevant.

I understand that you can decompose the tensor [itex]A^{\mu\nu}[/itex] into the sum of symmetric and anti-symmetric parts, but i don't see why the symmetric part vanishes under contraction.

If someone could explain I'd be very grateful - thank you!
Your notes are inaccurate. What you tried to note down is probably:
If [itex]a^{\mu\nu}=-a^{\nu\mu}[/itex], then [itex]A^{\mu\nu}a_{\mu\nu}=\frac{1}{2}a_{\mu\nu}(A^{\mu\nu}-A^{\nu\mu})[/itex],
for any [itex]A^{\mu\nu}[/itex].
 
Whoops that B was meant to be an A -- error fixed! but what do you mean by inaccurate exactly? what part is wrong?
 
my2cts said:
Your notes are inaccurate. What you tried to note down is probably:
If [itex]a^{\mu\nu}=-a^{\nu\mu}[/itex], then [itex]A^{\mu\nu}a_{\mu\nu}=\frac{1}{2}a_{\mu\nu}(A^{\mu\nu}-A^{\nu\mu})[/itex],
for any [itex]A^{\mu\nu}[/itex].
Dixanadu said:
Whoops that B was meant to be an A -- error fixed! but what do you mean by inaccurate exactly? what part is wrong?
The part where you wrote B instead of A ?
 
Yes -- sorry about that!
 

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