Contravariant vectors and Transformation Equations

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation of components of a displacement vector in the context of tensor analysis, specifically regarding contravariant vectors and their behavior under coordinate transformations. The original poster is exploring how these transformations apply when changing from a Cartesian coordinate system to a rotated coordinate system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the transformation equations for a displacement vector and questions the correctness of their derived partial derivatives. Some participants suggest re-evaluating the transformation equations and the relationships between the variables involved.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's confusion regarding the transformation equations. Some guidance has been offered regarding the correct interpretation of the partial derivatives and the structure of the transformation equations. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to clarify the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of a potential mix-up in indices and the need for clarity in writing the transformation equations. The original poster also acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the type of equation being used, indicating a learning process in progress.

ashwinnarayan
Messages
16
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



This is me doing some independent study on Tensors because I eventually hope to understand General Relativity.

My question is about the following equation which describe hoe the components of a displacement vector transform when there is a change in the coordinate system.

d{y}^1 = \frac{∂y^1}{∂x^1} dx^1 + \frac{∂y^1}{∂x^2} dx^2

To understand with and example, I drew out a normal 2D Cartesian Coordinate system with the axes x^1 andx^2 and drew a new coordinate system with axes y^1 and y^2. This new coordinate system was just the x system rotated anticlockwise by 30 degrees. I drew a displacement vector which went from (1,1) to (2,2) essentially a displacement vector of (dx^1,dx^2)

Since I already know linear algebra fairly well, I used the inverse transformation of a clockwise rotation of 30 degrees
<br /> \left( \begin{array}{ccc}<br /> \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} &amp; \frac{1}{2} \\<br /> \frac{-1}{2} &amp; \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} \\<br /> \end{array} \right) <br />
to find the values of y^1 and y^2 and got
dy^1 =\frac{ \sqrt{3}}{2} dx^2 + \frac{1}{2} dx^2

Now try as I might I cannot seem to be able to figure out how the heck \frac{∂y^1}{∂x^1} = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} and \frac{∂y^1}{∂x^2} = \frac{1}{2}

Can someone help me out?

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution

 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
1. If you're doing tensors this book (it's free) is the single best book I've read on introducing the subject
http://www.math.odu.edu/~jhh/counter2.html

2. if the equation you wrote for dy^1 is correct then \frac{\partial y^1}{\partial x^1} = \frac{1}{2} and \frac{\partial y^1}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}
I think you may have mixed you indices up, try writing out the transformation equations in the form of
y^1 = f_1(x^1)+g_1(x^2)
y^2 = f_2(x^1)+g_2(x^2)
it'll help you out a lot
 
Oh! I'm really sorry! :frown: It should have been

dy^1 =\frac{ \sqrt{3}}{2} dx^1 + \frac{1}{2} dx^2


And that book is really good. Thanks!:biggrin:

About trying to write the equation in that format I think the problem maybe that I'm not writing it down correctly.

In my coordinate system transformation (which I've attached) am I right in saying that

y^1 = \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}x^1 because y^1 is essentially a straight line with a gradient of \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}}?
 

Attachments

  • coord.png
    coord.png
    4.7 KB · Views: 267
Yeah, if dy^1 = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} dx^1 + \frac{1}{2}dx^2 then your partial derivatives are correct since the partial derivative with respect to one variable is just what you get when you set the 'd'*other variables to zero

For your transformation equation, think about what happens to your position in the y coordinates as you increase x1 then when you increase x2, each time you change your x1 coordinate you are changing your position in both of the y coordinates, if you understand what I mean.

if you move from x1=0 to x1=3, you've increase your y1 position but you've also decreased your y2 position since you are not below the y1 axis
 
Ah! I think I get it!

I've been considering the cartesian equation instead of the vector equation!

So y^1 = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} x^1 + \frac{1}{2} x^2 !

Then I can get \frac{∂y^1}{∂x^1} = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} and \frac{∂y^1}{∂x^2} = \frac{1}{2}

Yes, I get it now. Thanks a lot for helping me!
 

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K