Convergence Confusion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the application of the Cauchy Ratio test to power series, specifically addressing the conditions for convergence and the concept of the radius of convergence. Participants explore the implications of the test for series with positive terms versus those that may include negative terms, and the relationship between the limit of the ratio of coefficients and the interval of convergence.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Cauchy Ratio test indicates convergence for series of positive terms when the limit of the ratio of consecutive terms is less than one.
  • Others clarify that for power series, the limit must be taken in absolute value to account for potential negative terms, leading to the conclusion that if the limit exists and equals \( R^{-1} \), then \( R \) is the radius of convergence.
  • A participant questions the necessity of introducing \( R \) in their analysis, suggesting that they can derive the interval of convergence without it, using a specific example.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the step involving \( R \) and seeks clarification on how it relates to their derived interval of convergence.
  • Some participants emphasize the need to check endpoints when determining the interval of convergence, while others point out that the radius of convergence is a distinct concept that should not be conflated with the interval.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of the Cauchy Ratio test but express differing views on the necessity and interpretation of the radius of convergence \( R \). The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and utility of \( R \) in specific examples.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings about the relationship between the radius and interval of convergence, as well as the conditions under which the Cauchy Ratio test is applied, particularly regarding the absolute values of terms.

ognik
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The Cauchy Ratio test says: If $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n} < 1 $ then the series converges. OK.

Now I read that for a power series (of functions of x), the same test also provides the interval of convergence, i.e. If the series converges, then $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n} = {R}^{-1} $ and the interval is -R < x < R

Could someone please explain why this works? Thanks.
 
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ognik said:
The Cauchy Ratio test says: If $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n} < 1 $ then the series converges. OK.

Now I read that for a power series (of functions of x), the same test also provides the interval of convergence, i.e. If the series converges, then $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n} = {R}^{-1} $ and the interval is -R < x < R

Could someone please explain why this works? Thanks.
Both those results need to be stated a bit more carefully.

The Cauchy Ratio test says: If $\color{red}{\sum a_n}$ is a series of positive terms and $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n} < 1 $ then the series converges.

If you want to apply the test in a situation (like a power series with $x<0$) where the terms may not all be positive, then you have to take absolute values. The test then says that if $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}\Bigr| < 1 $ then the series converges (absolutely).

For a power series $\sum a_nx^n$, the limit $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}\Bigr|$ does not necessarily exist. The correct statement of the result is that if that limit exists and is equal to $R^{-1}$, then $R$ is the radius of convergence of the series.

The reason why this works is that you can apply the Cauchy Ratio test to see that the series converges if $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}x^{n+1}}{a_nx^n}\Bigr| < 1 $. But $\Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}x^{n+1}}{a_nx^n}\Bigr| = \Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}\Bigr|\,|\,x\,|$ and so $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}x^{n+1}}{a_nx^n}\Bigr| = R^{-1}|\,x\,|.$ Therefore the series converges if $R^{-1}|\,x\,| < 1$, in other words if $|\,x\,| < R.$
 
Glad to see I was correct about the approach needing the modulus of the ratio, but the point behind R still eludes me.

For example consider a series $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}n^3(x-s)^n,$$ s > 0.

This is convergent and works out to this point: $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}} |\frac{a_{n+1} }{a_n}| < 1$, from which I get $s-1 < x < s+1$, ie an interval of (s-1, s+1). This I'm happy with - and I didn't need an R.

Using $R^{−1}|x-s|<1 \implies |x-s|<R, \therefore s-R < x < s+R$. To me the R seems add unnecessary complexity, I have to assume that R = 1 to get the actual values, so what am I missing?
 
Opalg said:
... $= \Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}\Bigr|\,|\,x\,|$ and so $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}}\Bigl|\frac{a_{n+1}x^{n+1}}{a_nx^n}\Bigr| = R^{-1}|\,x\,|.$

Hi Opalg, I just don't follow this step?

Also is what I did wrong? - $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}} |\frac{a_{n+1} }{a_n}| < 1$, from which I get $s-1 < x < s+1$, ie an interval of (s-1, s+1).
 
ognik said:
Hi Opalg, I just don't follow this step?

Also is what I did wrong? - $ \lim_{{n}\to{\infty}} |\frac{a_{n+1} }{a_n}| < 1$, from which I get $s-1 < x < s+1$, ie an interval of (s-1, s+1).

You have gotten the INTERVAL of convergence (although you still need to check the endpoints) but you were asked for the RADIUS of convergence.

Since it seems you have gotten $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \left| x - s \right| < 1 \end{align*}$ (I haven't checked myself) then that would mean that the series converges in the circle centred at $\displaystyle \begin{align*} (x, y) = (s, 0) \end{align*}$ and thus the radius of convergence is 1. (I say circle because it could be a complex value...)
 
OK, thanks I was mixing those up, but I still don't follow that step in Opalg's post - where R appears...?
 
ognik said:
OK, thanks I was mixing those up, but I still don't follow that step in Opalg's post - where R appears...?

Sigh... You need to get it to a point where $\displaystyle \begin{align*} \left| x - c \right| < R \end{align*}$, or equivalently $\displaystyle \begin{align*} R^{-1} \, \left| x - c \right| < 1 \end{align*}$...
 

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