Convert the recursive formula into the explicit form

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around converting a recursive formula for a sequence into its explicit form. The sequence in question is defined recursively, and participants explore various interpretations and formulations of this sequence, including potential corrections and alternative approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the recursive definition of the sequence is given by \(a_1=0\) and \(a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (a_n+2\cdot n)\).
  • Others suggest an explicit formula of \(a_n = (-1)^{n+1}n(n-1)\) after simplifying the sequence without the alternating signs.
  • A later reply questions whether the recursive definition should instead involve the absolute value of \(a_n\) to account for the sign changes in the sequence.
  • Some participants express confusion over whether the sequence starts at \(a_0\) or \(a_1\), with references to the implications of each choice on the recursive definition.
  • There are discussions about the nature of the sequence's terms, specifically how they alternate in sign and the implications for the recursive formula.
  • Participants explore the telescoping nature of the sum derived from the recursive definition, questioning whether it leads to a valid simplification.
  • Some participants agree on the explicit formula \(a_n = (-1)^n n(n-1)\) as a potential alternative, while others maintain the original formulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the correct recursive definition or explicit formula, as participants present multiple interpretations and corrections. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the starting index of the sequence and the implications of different formulations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the recursive definition and explicit formula may depend on whether the sequence is indexed from \(a_0\) or \(a_1\), leading to different interpretations. The discussions also highlight the potential for confusion regarding the signs of the terms in the sequence.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

We have the sequence $$0, \ 2 , \ -6, \ 12, \ -20, \ \ldots$$ Its recursive definition is \begin{align*}&a_1=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (a_n+2\cdot n)\end{align*} or not?
How can we convert that in the explicit form? (Wondering)
 
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It is easiest first of all to ignore the $(-1)^{n+1}$ and consider the sequence
$$0,2,6,12,20,\ldots.$$
We can add the necessary minus signs later on.

This sequence is thus $a_{n+1}=a_n+2n$ i.e. $a_{n+1}-a_n=2n$. We can therefore use telescoping to get an explicit formula:
$$\begin{array}{rcl}a_{n+1}-a_n &=& 2n \\ a_n-a_{n-1} &=& 2(n-1) \\ {} &\vdots& {} \\ a_2-a_1 &=& 2\cdot1\end{array}$$
$\displaystyle\implies\ a_{n+1}-a_1=2\sum_{r=1}^nr=2\cdot\frac{n(n+1)}2=n(n+1)$,

i.e. $a_n=n(n-1)$. To restore the minus signs, simply add the $(-1)^{n+1}$ back:
$$\boxed{a_n\ =\ (-1)^{n+1}n(n-1)}.$$

PS: The formula for the original sequence $0,2,-6,12,-20,\ldots$ should be
$$a_1=0;\ a_{n+1}=a_n+(-1)^{n+1}\cdot2n.$$
If it were
mathmari said:
\begin{align*}&a_1=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (a_n+2\cdot n)\end{align*}
the fourth term would be $0$, not 12.
 
Last edited:
mathmari said:
Hey! :o

We have the sequence $$0, \ 2 , \ -6, \ 12, \ -20, \ \ldots$$ Its recursive definition is \begin{align*}&a_1=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (a_n+2\cdot n)\end{align*} or not?
How can we convert that in the explicit form? (Wondering)

Olinguito said:
$$\boxed{a_n\ =\ (-1)^{n+1}n(n-1)}.$$


Hey mathmari and Olinguito!

Just an observation:
$$\begin{array}{c|c|c|c|}n & a_n & a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (a_n+2\cdot n) & a_n\ =\ (-1)^{n+1}n(n-1) \\
\hline
1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
2 & 2 & (-1)^{1+1}\cdot(0+2\cdot 1) = 2 & (-1)^{2+1}\cdot 2 (2-1)={\color{red}-2}\\
3 & -6 & (-1)^{1+2}\cdot(2+2\cdot 2) = -6 \\
4 & 12 & (-1)^{1+3}\cdot(-6+2\cdot 3) = {\color{red}0} \\
5 & -20 \\
\end{array}$$
(Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
ust an observation:
$$\begin{array}{c|c|c|c|}n & a_n & a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (a_n+2\cdot n) & a_n\ =\ (-1)^{n+1}n(n-1) \\
\hline
1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
2 & 2 & (-1)^{1+1}\cdot(0+2\cdot 1) = 2 & (-1)^{2+1}\cdot 2 (2-1)={\color{red}-2}\\
3 & -6 & (-1)^{1+2}\cdot(2+2\cdot 2) = -6 \\
4 & 12 & (-1)^{1+3}\cdot(-6+2\cdot 3) = {\color{red}0} \\
5 & -20 \\
\end{array}$$
(Thinking)

Ah should it maybe be $$a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (|a_n|+2\cdot n) $$ ?

Because if we consider the sequence without the signs, we add at the previous number the number 2n. Then the sign changes, at the odd positions we have $-$ and at the even places we have $+$, or not?

(Wondering)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I like Serena said:
$$\begin{array}{c|c|c|c|}n & a_n & a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (a_n+2\cdot n) & a_n\ =\ (-1)^{n+1}n(n-1) \\
\hline
1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
2 & 2 & (-1)^{1+1}\cdot(0+2\cdot 1) = 2 & (-1)^{2+1}\cdot 2 (2-1)={\color{red}-2}\\
3 & -6 & (-1)^{1+2}\cdot(2+2\cdot 2) = -6 \\
4 & 12 & (-1)^{1+3}\cdot(-6+2\cdot 3) = {\color{red}0} \\
5 & -20 \\
\end{array}$$
Thanks, ILS. When the first term is $0$ it’s easy to slip into thinking it’s $a_0$ rather than $a_1$. In this case the formula should be
$$\boxed{a_n\ =\ (-1)^nn(n-1)}.$$

mathmari said:
Ah should it maybe be $$a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (|a_n|+2\cdot n) $$ ?
Yes, that should work. (Nod)
 
Olinguito said:
Thanks, ILS. When the first term is $0$ it’s easy to slip into thinking it’s $a_0$ rather than $a_1$. In this case the formula should be
$$\boxed{a_n\ =\ (-1)^nn(n-1)}.$$

Yes, that should work. (Nod)


So, is the recursive formula \begin{align*}&a_0=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (|a_n|+2\cdot n)\end{align*} and the explicit formula $$a_n\ =\ (-1)^nn(n-1)$$ ? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
So, is the recursive formula \begin{align*}&a_0=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=(-1)^{n+1}\cdot (|a_n|+2\cdot n)\end{align*} and the explicit formula $$a_n\ =\ (-1)^nn(n-1)$$ ?

Yes.
And an alternative form for the recursive formula is $a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n$. (Nerd)
 
I like Serena said:
Yes.
And an alternative form for the recursive formula is $a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n$. (Nerd)

Why is $(-1)^{n+1}|a_n|=-a_n$ ? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Why is $(-1)^{n+1}|a_n|=-a_n$ ?

Because $a_n$ alternates in sign.
That is, when $n$ is even, $a_n$ is positive.
And when $n$ is odd, $a_n$ is negative with a special case for $n=1$ since $a_1=0$.
 
  • #10
I like Serena said:
Because $a_n$ alternates in sign.
That is, when $n$ is even, $a_n$ is positive.
And when $n$ is odd, $a_n$ is negative with a special case for $n=1$ since $a_1=0$.

I got stuck right now.. Do we have $a_0=0$ or $a_1=0$ ?

I mean do we have \begin{align*}&a_0=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n\end{align*} or \begin{align*}&a_1=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n\end{align*} ? (Wondering)
 
  • #11
From $$a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n\Rightarrow a_{n+1}+ a_n = (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n$$ we get the following equations $$a_{n+1}+ a_n = (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n \\ a_{n}+ a_{n-1} = (-1)^{n}\cdot 2(n-1) \\ a_{n-1}+ a_{n-2} = (-1)^{n-1}\cdot 2(n-2) \\ \vdots \\ a_{2}+ a_1 = (-1)^{2}\cdot 2\cdot 1 $$ so we don't get an telescoping sum, do we? (Wondering)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #12
mathmari said:
I got stuck right now.. Do we have $a_0=0$ or $a_1=0$ ?

I mean do we have \begin{align*}&a_0=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n\end{align*} or \begin{align*}&a_1=0 \\ &a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n\end{align*} ?

In post #1 we were given that $a_1=0$ and $a_0$ is presumably undefined.
All posts in this thread follow that definition. (Angel)

mathmari said:
From $$a_{n+1}=- a_n + (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n\Rightarrow a_{n+1}+ a_n = (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n$$ we get the following equations $$a_{n+1}+ a_n = (-1)^{n+1}\cdot 2n \\ a_{n}+ a_{n-1} = (-1)^{n}\cdot 2(n-1) \\ a_{n-1}+ a_{n-2} = (-1)^{n-1}\cdot 2(n-2) \\ \vdots \\ a_{2}+ a_1 = (-1)^{2}\cdot 2\cdot 1 $$ so we don't get an telescoping sum, do we?

It's still a telescoping sum - after we multiply every other line with $-1$. (Smirk)
 
  • #13
I like Serena said:
It's still a telescoping sum - after we multiply every other line with $-1$. (Smirk)

Ah ok! So on the left side we get $a_{n+1}$ but which sum do we get on the right sum? (Wondering)
 
  • #14
mathmari said:
Ah ok! So on the left side we get $a_{n+1}$ but which sum do we get on the right sum? (Wondering)

Let's consider 2 cases: $n+1$ is even, and $n+1$ is odd.
And let's start with the first one ($n+1$ is even).
What will those equations looks like then? It should simplify them, shouldn't it? (Wondering)
 
  • #15
I like Serena said:
Let's consider 2 cases: $n+1$ is even, and $n+1$ is odd.
And let's start with the first one ($n+1$ is even).
What will those equations looks like then? It should simplify them, shouldn't it? (Wondering)

If $n+1$ is even we get $$2n+2(n-1)+2(n-2)+\ldots +2\cdot 2+2\cdot 1=2\sum_{i=1}^{n}i=2\cdot \frac{n(n+1)}{2}=n(n+1)$$
If $n+1$ is odd we get $$-2n-2(n-1)-2(n-2)-\ldots -2\cdot 2-2\cdot 1=-2\sum_{i=1}^{n}i=-2\cdot \frac{n(n+1)}{2}=-n(n+1)$$

Is everything correct? (Wondering)
 
  • #16
mathmari said:
If $n+1$ is even we get $$2n+2(n-1)+2(n-2)+\ldots +2\cdot 2+2\cdot 1=2\sum_{i=1}^{n}i=2\cdot \frac{n(n+1)}{2}=n(n+1)$$
If $n+1$ is odd we get $$-2n-2(n-1)-2(n-2)-\ldots -2\cdot 2-2\cdot 1=-2\sum_{i=1}^{n}i=-2\cdot \frac{n(n+1)}{2}=-n(n+1)$$

Is everything correct?
(Nod)
 
  • #17
Thanks a lot! (Sun)
 

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