Converting from mag to electronic

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around converting a magneto ignition system to an electronic ignition system for a single-cylinder engine, specifically a 1960 Velocette MAC. Participants explore the challenges of mapping ignition timing and the necessary components for the conversion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to convert from magneto to electronic ignition due to the high maintenance costs of magnetos and mentions the ability to manufacture a housing for the new mechanism.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of advance/retard timing for a single-cylinder engine and suggests that it may not be as beneficial.
  • Some participants propose that a cam sensor is needed to dictate firing timing and discuss the importance of varying advance/retard based on engine RPM and throttle position.
  • A participant shares a link to a basic circuit design that utilizes mechanical advance/retard without additional inputs.
  • Another participant mentions the potential use of a Hall effect sensor for triggering and suggests the need for an RPM sensor and electronic vacuum sensor for optimal results.
  • Mapping the ignition curve remains a concern, with one participant noting a specific mapping suggestion of 1 degree per 100 RPM for the bike.
  • There is discussion about the stator count of the original magneto and the reliability of auto advance mechanisms in certain models.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the necessity and benefits of advance/retard timing for a single-cylinder engine, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion around the specific components and methods for the conversion is ongoing and unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the best approach to mapping the ignition timing or the specific components required for the conversion. There are also unresolved questions regarding the reliability of existing magneto systems and the effectiveness of proposed electronic solutions.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in motorcycle mechanics, specifically those looking to upgrade ignition systems or those working with vintage motorcycle engines.

wolram
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Ok magnetoes are fine buit expensive to keep in A1 condition, so i want to convert to electronic, i have the means to manufacture the body to hold the new mechanism, and guess i can tailor it to fit some prop trigger mechanism
for the LT, the problem is a control for maping the required advance/retard,
i am quite niffty with a soldering iron, so i think i could build the electronics,
but how do i go about maping it to the engine?
 
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This is for a single cylinder engine
 
wolram said:
This is for a single cylinder engine

Any expanded Blue Prints of the Engine?

Model:
Type:
Year:
Spects:
 
So you're first hurdle would be to get some kind of cam sensor to dictate the firing...right? It's been a while since I have dealt with this stuff. For a single cylinder, is it really that beneficial to give yourself a lead/retard on the firing?
 
FredGarvin said:
So you're first hurdle would be to get some kind of cam sensor to dictate the firing...right? It's been a while since I have dealt with this stuff. For a single cylinder, is it really that beneficial to give yourself a lead/retard on the firing?
It sure is for cold starting Fred, and performance of course, i have several ways i could go,manual advance /retard mag, Points/coil, electronic.
If i can find an electronic pick up i can make an adapter housing drive shaft ect, the electronics seem simple, apart from the advance/retard, i think i need some sort of feed back to the circuit ie engine rpm but that could come from the pick up i think, or maybe i could buy a (black box) off the shelf,
all very much up in the air at the minute, i could buy a ready made convertion but that comes to 500 UK+.
 
You would have to vary the advance/retard based on throttle position as well as engine RPM I would think. Back when I worked in automotive powertrain, I remember quite a few parameters were involved in the calculations the engine PCM would do to adjust it. I think that RPM would be the bare minimum if your load increases steadily with RPM. If not, I think you'd have to work in throttle position as well.
 
This site is akin to what i will
try to make, it seems all i need for the trigger is an hall effect sensor, this could be possitioned to pick up on some rotating
engine part, i think i will need an rpm sensor (trigger) and a electronic vacuum sensor for best results.

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/tech03061700.html

Mapping the curve is still the headache, this site says 1 degree per 100 rpm
for this bike.

The multi spark option ie the plug fires several times sounds good .
 
I know cam sensors are indeed hall effect sensors on larger engines.

I'm going to have to do some reading here.
 
  • #10
Intuitive said:
Any expanded Blue Prints of the Engine?

Model:
Type:
Year:
Spects:

Sorry Intuitive i missed this post.

Model: velocette
Type: MAC
Year: 1960
cc: 349
Compression ratio: 6.75 to one
Carburetter: 15/16 Amal
Electrics: 6v
 
  • #11
Ah yes, a Velocette, have your tried posting this on the "Brit Bike Forum"?
Cheers,
RG500
 
  • #12
wolram said:
Sorry Intuitive i missed this post.

Model: velocette
Type: MAC
Year: 1960
cc: 349
Compression ratio: 6.75 to one
Carburetter: 15/16 Amal
Electrics: 6v

Hi Wolram.

What's the Stator count on your Magneto?

I have seen ones with 4 Stators and some up to 10 Stators on the Stator Ring.

Are you using a rebuilt original Magneto or are you using a Modern cross referenced Magneto?
 
  • #13
Intuitive said:
Hi Wolram.

What's the Stator count on your Magneto?

I have seen ones with 4 Stators and some up to 10 Stators on the Stator Ring.

Are you using a rebuilt original Magneto or are you using a Modern cross referenced Magneto?

It looks like the original mag, i have asked around, and it seems the auto
advance on these lucas type kif mags have always had problems, the auto advance is type jy16a, and most tend to fit a mag with manual advance.

I have not taken the mag apart, as after reading 10s of peoples problems
with this mag, i decided it would be best to go electronic.
 
  • #14
RG500 said:
Ah yes, a Velocette, have your tried posting this on the "Brit Bike Forum"?
Cheers,
RG500

I just spent an enjoyable hour on that forum, great place RG500:smile:
 

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