Converting noise into electrical energy

[sophiecentaur]

I have considered using crystals as a primary source for energy generation. Consider a turning fork. It is not large, nor loud, yet it can shatter glass. I am sure with the primary tone and it's harmonics, some acustic engineering and channeling it's point of critical mass or it's most effective convergent frequency; energy can be gleaned. The problem is not creating energy, the problem is increasing the yield. Once you increase the yeild of one, the same approach can be use to increase all forms of energu.

A tuning fork is not loud because it doesn't couple its vibrational energy out into the air efficiently. (You need a sounding board to hear it). But it has (relatively) a lot of energy in it - you give it a hard bash to get it going. That energy is more than enough to smash a glass, which makes sense because, if you gave the glass the sort of bash you give a tuning fork, you could break it and cut out the middle man.

You can alter the 'yield', as you put it, but not to get more out than you put in.

But which are you discussing, noise production or noise reception? What are you actually trying to do with this noise?

 

[kwaekins]

I has thinking that there might be sources of sound that can be regenerative and more efficient than others. I also thought that even a small amounts of energy can be increased by using circuits like voltage doubler over and over until you reach a goal voltage..

 

[JaredJames]

I also thought that even a small amounts of energy can be increased by using circuits like voltage doubler over and over until you reach a goal voltage..

Of course, but you have to input that additional energy. It has to come from somewhere.

I have no idea what a "regenerative sound" is so I'll leave that to someone else.

 

[sophiecentaur]

1. What do you mean by an "efficient" source of sound?
2. In my figures for available power of sound noise, I was, of course, assuming 100% efficiency. A voltage doubler gives no more power. That's basics.

 

[kthouz]

Increasing the yield?

The energy has to come from somewhere. You can't just take a small amount and output a large amount.

Are you aware why a tuning fork is able to break glass?

I also think that increasing the yield should violate thermodynamics laws. And about about the point that a turning fork is able to break a glass may be depending on the structure of the glass and the resonance phenomenon. May be kwaekins should have some interesting ideas to share but he has to explain clearly

 

[kwaekins]

Thank you for your responses, it is Challenging to read them. I am assembling some data and i will respond.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I also think that increasing the yield should violate thermodynamics laws. And about about the point that a turning fork is able to break a glass may be depending on the structure of the glass and the resonance phenomenon. May be kwaekins should have some interesting ideas to share but he has to explain clearly

It doesn't have to be resonance when you touch with a tuning fork. It's just that the prongs are vibrating at fairly high speed and they are of significant mass. They are 'matched' to the dense glass with a high modulus and can transfer a lot of their energy. They are highly mis-matched to the air so they do not transfer energy very rapidly (you can't hear it without a matching device - like a sounding board).

But I'm really not sure where he is going with this - is the exercise to 'harvest' wasted noise energy or to transfer energy from one thing to another? Either way you won't get much efficiency out of the system.

 

[Jarfi]

You keep saying that noise has too little energy... what about covering scyscrapers with noise absorbing material it would absorb waves is all scyscrapers in ny would have this i guess we would get a lot of energy

 

[JaredJames]

You keep saying that noise has too little energy... what about covering scyscrapers with noise absorbing material it would absorb waves is all scyscrapers in ny would have this i guess we would get a lot of energy

I assume you know how much "noise" there is? It's really not that much.

Once you allow for losses on the "capturing" equipment you'd be left with bugger all to work with.

 

[sophiecentaur]

You keep saying that noise has too little energy... what about covering scyscrapers with noise absorbing material it would absorb waves is all scyscrapers in ny would have this i guess we would get a lot of energy

Why do insist on ignoring the figures? This won't work 'just because you want it to'. If you aspire to be, in any way, an Engineer or a Physicist then you need to trust what the figures tell you. Do the sums yourself and estimate how much energy this system that's in your head, could yield. It's not up to the forum to give you detailed reasons why it's not on - it's up to you to prove that it is on. We've indicated the sort of numbers involved for you to make a start.
Wrapping Manhattan in a jacket (at least, bits of it) could give you a good return on your money- but simply because you could save on heat energy loss. But, bearing in mind how much they spend on extracting heat from all the buildings in order to make them liveable then even that wouldn't be a worthwhile scheme.

 

[whocouldshebe]

maybe you could make something like the mechanics inside of a self winding watch but on a larger scale sensitive enough (a million watches LOL) to wind with vibration from the sound. You could build a structure tuned to the harmonics of the sound so it vibrates violently and winds up a bunch of tiny gear train generators.

Great idea!

 

[JaredJames]

1. Random background noise won't be easy to 'tune into'. You'd need a dynamic system to constantly adjust it for the harmonics - another energy drain.

2. There is significantly more energy in a wrist movement than there is in sound of this scale. So it's not something you can compare up doing. You'd be better off putting wind turbines on the skyscrapers.

 

[sophiecentaur]

This is now a joke. Yes?

 

[JaredJames]

This is now a joke. Yes?

Yes.

 

[Keith Edward]

Not a joke - nothing scientific about jokes in my regards to this issue. I have 80% of the physics worked out and can assemble numerical data to support and further evaluate. The rules (the ones we know) at play have straightforward work-arounds that will advance technology in a significant manner. We will have a few new inventions of-sorts. The principals are easy to navigate and create, yet it has yet to be manufactured.
I am in support and am glad for your contact. My brain knows it works - a working prototype will be on my table in the next year.
Doubt it - necessity is the mother of invention!

 

[sophiecentaur]

When you have assembled all the numerical data, I will be interested to find out just how much power is available. Without the sums, none of this holds water.

 

[trihorn]

kthouz, i imagine ur thots & it seems alrite. i think d idea is 2 make electricity & not v.loud noise.d microphone as an input, amplifier, then a speaker enclosed in a system (sound not heard) to cause vibration. from d random vibration u could create a mechanical system, den electrical system.again dis system can't work on its own so u'll need an initial start current to power it b/4 creating a feedback & control system.all d best.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Why do you write in text speak? I should have thought it would be courtesy and sense to use the accepted style on the forum (i.e. something like written English) if you want anyone to bother with any argument you may be putting forward.

 

[NascentOxygen]

In a building any noise is converted into heat as it's absorbed by the walls, floor, etc., so it doesn't always represent wasted energy. It eases by a small amount the load that cool weather makes on heating demands from your aircon.

 

[sodaboy7]

Here is an interesting fact: If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months and 6 days you would produce enough sound energy to heat one cup of coffee.

 

[kthouz]

Here is an interesting fact: If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months and 6 days you would produce enough sound energy to heat one cup of coffee.

Do you have any reference (paper, book, ...), please?

 

[NascentOxygen]

if i convert noise into electrical form than i can use some electronics things to remove noise. My application of this conversion is for removing noise in apartments or dense area which generally comes from window so i want to make something which removes noise with opened window.thanks for reply.

Active noise-cancelling techniques are a well-established science. Do a google search. It can't achieve the impossible, though.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Active Noise reduction uses power from a power supply. It isn't a harvesting technique. Quite the reverse.

 

[MrNerd]

Hmmm...I would have sworn that microphones already did this. The vibrations from the sound waves created a small current or something along those lines. I think it was something about the vibrations causing a tiny magnet to vibrate in a coil of wire, inducing a voltage/current.

 

[sophiecentaur]

That's how a microphone works (moving coil, ribbon etc etc). It transfers mechanical vibrations into tiny electrical signals. But a microphone only gathers a minute amount of sound power and it is not a very efficient transducer in any case. An 'active' system uses energy from a power supply and redirects or absorbs noise energy - an overall loss of useful energy.
Why do people just not bother to do the sums and work out exactly how much energy is available? The actual figures are what count in these matters. What applies perfectly well in principle may not actually apply in practice.

If you invented a machine that would make you 1 penny every minute, it would earn you about £5k a year. Sounds great but if it cost you £10k to build and took £5k a year to maintain, it would be a dead loss. The 'energy from noise' idea is like that but many times worse - more like one penny every hour. You have to get real - particularly if you are thinking of investing your own money.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Save energy - don't try to re-use it.

 

[94yashwanth]

hey...i thot of a new idea of converting solar energy to electrical along with mechanical energy which is of good use...and as per ur advices i thot of even converting the noise produced by the mechanical equipments to electrical energy to minimise losses of energy...and to use even heat i thot of using helium as means of heat transfer! i hve a hunch that it might be problematic...have any other ideas fellas??

 

[sophiecentaur]

If you try to do energy conversion with a heat engine then you have already built in the fundamental problem of thermodynamic efficiency.
This scattergun approach won't produce anything useful. you know. There are fundamental limits to what's possible - even if there are none to the imagination.

On the other hand, if you wanted to make loads of money by marketing a whacky system, you could be successful because there are many out there who are more gullible than you!

btw, Helium would just cost you a lot of money to no avail. Commercial PV cells are about as good as you'll get at this stage. There's a lot of that Solar Power available but there just isn't enough mechanical noise power available. Ten more pages of posts won't alter that.

 

[Mahipat Singh]

Please let me know, if anyone have formula to convert sound into electricity ?

I am researching on this topic since 10 years, but little bit reach { V=E }

Thanks.

 

[sophiecentaur]

What do you mean by that question? Watts of Power are Watts of Power, in whatever form. Are you asking about the performance of a particular device? All devices are different. You can find information about the sensitivity of microphones, which will tell you how may mV to expect for a certain sound level. It will be absolutely minuscule, in terms of power.
If you have, as you say, been researching this topic for ten years then I should be interested to know why this research hasn't included Cost Benefit Analysis. I might suggest that you, your computer and the rest of the circuitry on the internet have used (/wasted) more energy on this discussion than you could ever claw back as 'reused' sound energy in any system you may devise.
If you want to get a sympathetic reception and actual encouragement for this sort of idea then you should try a fringe / alternative site, where people may not actually have basic Engineering and Scientific knowhow.
Seriously, do you have a single hard fact that could lead you to think this is a sensible idea?